Wake of Godzilla Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hi all, one of my friends an experienced Malifaux player was asking me a little about the Reser masters as he was looking to start in the faction. I recommended that he picked one master to start with and he asked for a little guidance about what they all did. Without wanting to into the masters trait by trait I drew up a quick guide based on my experience of them (in the case of Kirai, Molly and Tara a little Theoryfaux). I would be keen to just get your feedback on how this stacks up for your experience of each master. I've done it based on the master only not the crew that goes with the master. Guide to the break down of traits is as follows - Summoning - the ease of which to summon and the range of models which the master has access to. Killing - What it says on the tin - how killy can this master can be Speed - How fast they get about the board, again without the aid of any other models Scheme Interactions - How many AP they have to interact with schemes or any other tricks that they can use. Buffing - how they can improve models in your crew Debuffing - how they can reduce the effectiveness of models in your opponents crews Survival / Tarpit - what is the staying power of the model to take a punch and tie up the enemy crew without killing them Nicodem Summoning - A Killing - C Speed - C Scheme Interactions - C Buffing - A Debuffing - B Survival / Tarpit - C Seamus Summoning - B Killing - B Speed - A Scheme Interactions - C Buffing - C Debuffing - A Survival / Tarpit - A McMorning Summoning - B Killing - A Speed - A Scheme Interactions - B Buffing - C Debuffing - C Survival / Tarpit - B Tara Summoning - C Killing - C Speed - A Scheme Interactions - A Buffing - B+ Debuffing - B Survival / Tarpit - B Molly Summoning - B+ Killing - B Speed - C Scheme Interactions - C Buffing - B Debuffing - A Survival / Tarpit - A Kirai Summoning - A Killing - C+ Speed - B Scheme Interactions - C Buffing - B Debuffing - C Survival / Tarpit - C+ Yan Lo Summoning - C Killing - C+ Speed - B Scheme Interactions - C Buffing - B Debuffing - B Survival / Tarpit - A / C (depending on upgrades) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_havoc Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Personally I think you'd need a couple other factors in there for example Close/Ranged but most of all Synergy would be an important note to make. For example Seamus doesn't have to synergise all that well with his crew to be effective but someone like Nicodem thrives in that regard. It's not the same as buffing as you don't have to buff to get good synergy out of a master and it's crew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake of Godzilla Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 That's a great point, however I think that each master in the Resers can have a strong synergy with his crew. Seamus can have some amazing synergy with his crew if you take models that go after WP or do more horror. While he doesn't provide the raw buff that Nicodem his sinsiter rep will give a big bonus to your models who are targeting Wp or have horror duels. I guess it feels like it comes down to play style, but thank you for your feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I disagree, as a Seamus player myself, outside of his theme crew very few models have any direct synergy with him. Yin with her Wp resists and the Hanged are examples of this (playing off his WP debuff if you take it, and his heal when WP duels are failed) Jaakuna could be considered synergistic with her lure, but she is a tarpit while Seamus likes to be mobile so rarely would the two combine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Tara summoning should be F or D as she does not summon anything unless she buys the general upgrade as such summoning is even more of an after thought and she should be the lowest in this area of all the masters. Other masters that summon because of upgrades tend to summon models or by methods that add character and game play options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Tara summons with her totem, which is effectively 2 turns of summoning if you're playing it at all intelligently (unless the summon dies the first turn). I'd call her a B- or so. More flexible than Yan Lo (because it doesn't require her guys are dead already) and doesn't necessarily take Masters' actions, and they get a full (or possibly fast) activation when summoned, but highly suit-dependent (since Karina can't soulstone for it).Also, being able to hand out fast or slow and protect/teleport models seems like it would warrant an A- for support, maybe more if focusing the crew on her interactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Though she may take her totem she does not need to. This is a rating of Masters, which means to me it has to cover only the master and possibly there upgrades other wise the name and metric is misleading. For instance if took into account the grave spirit that would effect all the masters resilience but also some other capabilities of various master. Make a metric, make it consistence and make it understandable; totems and other models the master normally take should not factor into this. I would not even have 0 point models that a master auto gets involved, though I do not think resers have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Metrics involved of balancing or ranking something as complicated as Maliflaux is highly complicated and often involve quantifying difficult aspects of a model. It is sort of like what is the value of a soul stone, I have no general answer to that because my answer will probably be different per a person and possible per master or henchman they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Really? So, you wouldn't consider exclusive pieces like Ikiryo, the second Viktoria, or the Hungering Darkness? How about the option for dual faction choices brought in from different factions, or special options like Marcus or Zoraida's unlocked choices?If you don't, then why are upgrades on the table? Shouldn't you be looking at raw starting cards only?Just speaking from my most recent focuses on masters as examples, Tara's signature burying abilities are only on upgrades and crew selection (otherwise, she's basically just a Fast battery with some attacks that belong on a 6-7 point model), and Mei Feng has very little mobility in TT and an average action count, unless you count her crew selection and upgrades.Sorry, but unique options at least should be considered, and synergies are relevant, too. Otherwise, you're getting into oversimplified 40k territory where it's basically just a matter of strength in a vacuum and how much you want to balance or spam.There are some models that will work okay regardless of master, but the reverse isn't true. Malifaux is designed as highly flexible, and not taking that flexibility into account when estimating power goes against what I consider the spirit of its mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Hmm forgot about Ikiryo especially because she is brought out like her master like Lord Chompibits. This is where comparison are tricky, I would consider the stat cards and upgrades because those are all possessed by the masters and a directly related to the model, totems and free models do not disappears with the master. If you are including them then like totems I like them to be mentions. For instant Kiria contingent: Kiria ranking Ikiryo ranking True Love ranking If you wish you could then do a ranking on what the upgrade effects. Such as Dead of Winter: EFFECT Rank: SCORE Ranking have a lot of subjective points to them. When you talk about victory of ash or blood do you talk about purely there interaction or them on there own first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yes. I would consider the combination of Kirai, her totem, and her exclusive summon as a single entry. Kirai has some pretty weak fight in her, but comes with a nearly free, recycling, high threat range, pretty good damage model that can support her typical pieces, and two heal batteries where she's frequently damaging her models.If you ignore exclusive options, you're just asking which masters do the best with generic/universally accessible pieces, meaning the more a master relies on a unique set of options (reminder: 3/7 Resser Masters are dual faction and one tends to act as a mini-faction), the more skewed the perspective will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 The alternative is that if you combine a lot of unique pieces into it you end up skewing it the other way. Kirai is weak in a fight but add in Ikiryo and now as one entry and now she is a lot better at hand to hand and possible more survivable. I could almost see talking about zero pt models with the masters, I do not like it but I can understand it. Add in the totem and she gets another boost. I would go just the master as an entity or I would brake it down as a contingent and give a ranking for each model in the contingent. Doing an aggregate ranking for the mast with the "ideal" and unique pieces is injecting a lot of bias into the discussion, and this is already full of bias with masters especially with a ordinal character base scale. Ultimately is it the master we want to know about or the master contingent. Also once you start adding totems where do you stop, such as Vanessa for the Vics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I said where you (or where I'd) stop- at unique options things specific to the Master or due to opening up options from other factions. You're right that it's unrealistic to just include anything with synergy with the Master... which is why I didn't.IDK... I think we're going in circles now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I think your right about going around in a circle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoking Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 There is no way Kirai is a c for survivability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.