The Godlyness Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 If I use judgement and reduce the model to 0 wounds but I trigger skinned alive and I successfully cast/ enemy fails to resist weigh sins do I get a gaki or onryo. Even though the model was killed by judgement? I love the game. I hate killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 PraetorDragoon Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Do you even get to make the Weight Sins attack in that case? Technically the model has already been killed, and can't be killed twice. I know the thing is that you get to resolve the "After Damaging" trigger before removing the model, but wouldn't it be removed when the second attack (a seperate duel) is being made as step 4 is resolved already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DocSchlock Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Is a Killed model a legal target for an attack? It wouldn't matter that the trigger would still attempt to resolve, it would have to choose a legal target. Is a model killed when it goes past the "Reduced to 0 Wounds Step" or when it's removed from the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 No sadly. The second attack must go off. Its not a May it's an "immediately take this action" So yes you are attacking a model with 0 wounds. But both of you are still flipping cards and so on. The trigger has to resolve which in this case is another attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Is a Killed model a legal target for an attack? It wouldn't matter that the trigger would still attempt to resolve, it would have to choose a legal target. Is a model killed when it goes past the "Reduced to 0 Wounds Step" or when it's removed from the table? Yes. There are 85 threads that are closed now. After Damaging triggers are resolved before the model is removed. So onslaught maul any action that causes an additional attack must go off even though people usually just remove the model and don't flip cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DocSchlock Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'm fully expecting this to get FAQ'd to "It's already killed, you can't target an already killed model." After Damaging triggers are resolved before the model is removed. This is true. The second attack must go off. This is not entirely true. A second attack can only go off "on the same target." If killed turns out to stop targeting, then you can't make the second attack and the Trigger fails. Are there any examples of abilities explicitly targeting a killed model that hasn't been removed? EDIT: Duh, the Triggers that summon the Gaki and Onryo target a model that is killed but not removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Collodi's trigger was errated. Onslaught, maul, blood frenzy, etc A model being killed does not prevent it from being targeted. Usally it's just not there to be targeted. BUT as after damaging explicitly states that the trigger is resolved before the model is removed. The target is still there to be targeted. Also if teddy triggers peekaboo and the damage kills the target he still gets to push the model even though it's killed. I uses this frequently for free movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DocSchlock Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Just reading the card again, it becomes clear that a model can only become killed once. In my opinion, Weigh Sins would not be able to summon a Gaki or an Onyro, since the model is already killed and can't become killed again for the trigger. This is worthy of FAQ though. I definitely could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 That's really my question. Which Ausplosions loves this question. Can you be killed twice by two different or same attacks? Or is the act of removing the model when it is actually killed. Then you would get a gaki/onryo Again I hate killed. But if they don't get one ok if they do ok. I just want to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DocSchlock Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yeah, definitely needs an FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Clement Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 the target is dead when it hits 0 wounds. It didn't gain "undie" between the first hit and the second. The second didn't kill it, the first did. You're just wailing on the corpse before it falls over. Muddying the waters though, the triggers on Weigh Sins do not stipulate that this attack must be the one to kill the target. I could see that this is intended to actually allow for the creation of a Gaki/Onryo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DocSchlock Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would argue that triggers only care about what the Action they are part of did. 'After killing" wouldn't have any effect because the killing was done in the first Action, not Weigh Sins. Weigh Sins didn't kill any model. The model started the Weigh Sins action as killed. It needs a FAQ. Due to the ambiguous nature of 'killed', it's not clear at all how Judgement and Weigh Sins are supposed to interact if Judgement kills a model and hits the Weigh Sins trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 hypoking Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Raw wise, I think yes. Intent wise is muddier. Given the last wave of pre-errata was pretty much intended to stop exactly this kind of thing from happening its something the devs don't seem too keen on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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The Godlyness
If I use judgement and reduce the model to 0 wounds but I trigger skinned alive and I successfully cast/ enemy fails to resist weigh sins do I get a gaki or onryo. Even though the model was killed by judgement?
I love the game. I hate killed.
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