Bodyguard and Bury

[Incarias]

To get points for the Bodyguard scheme, the chosen model needs to be "still in play".

 

A model that gets buried leaves play.

 

Does this permanently disqualify a model that gets buried from scoring Bodyguard? That is, does a model "remember" that it has at one point been out of play, even if it returns?

[thebarbalag]

Not permanently disqualified, but certainly as long as it's buried. It's the same model when it returns to play, and still the target of the scheme. Boxing something with a Death Marshall is a great way to keep your opponent from scoring on Bodyguard.

[Incarias]

But is it still in play, or is it in play again?

 

I fully agree that while buried, there's no question. The thing I am unclear on has to do with the word 'still', which implies that the 'in play-ness' needs to be part of a contiguous, unbroken, state stretching back to the beginning of the game. If this is not the case, why the 'still', at all?

[Mako]

I wouldn't analyse it that much - it only means that the model must be in play when you want to score the VP, it can have been buried and unburied as much as you like. It would say 'must never leave play' if it meant that.

Otherwise, crews that rely on bury (Tara, Levi...) would suffer badly.

As long as it is the same model, using the same wound count, same upgrades etc (not a replacement you summon), then it's fine.

[HalcyonSeraph]

But is it still in play, or is it in play again?

 

I fully agree that while buried, there's no question. The thing I am unclear on has to do with the word 'still', which implies that the 'in play-ness' needs to be part of a contiguous, unbroken, state stretching back to the beginning of the game. If this is not the case, why the 'still', at all?

 

The game has no memory of whether a model was ever buried, so if you spend a turn buried and come back, you are still eligible for Bodyguard. This is very different from models who die and are resummoned, like Yan Lo's ancestors or Lord Chompy Bits, who are treated as completely new models each time. 

[Incarias]

To be clear, this is not to be wilfully obtuse, but because we have genuinely argued both sides at the club:

 

What is your evidence?

[Ausplosions]

To be clear, this is not to be wilfully obtuse, but because we have genuinely argued both sides at the club:

What is your evidence?

Because there is no rule stating that models remember being buried?

[The Godlyness]

Game goes is model in play good score points if not boo you don't score any. Simplest way to explain it.

[Zalabar]

Because there is no rule stating that models remember being buried?

Or indeed, that models remember any events on the game at all. A model lit ablaze does not face horror duels from the model that ignited it, a model that passes a horror duel can then be forced to cower in terror the next round by the object of their fears, a model that shot its friend in melee may do so again and again, a harmless model goes back to harmless every round, etc.

They live in tiny particles of Now, remembering nothing, oblivious to their terrible fate.  

But in this particular case, Bodyguard also makes no reference to the model having to stay in play, just if it is in play and more than 8" from their deployment zone when you check to see if there will be VP awarded. 

[Bahoola]

Don't know if this helps you out. To me the wording 'stil' in play only implicate that the model has to be their. Meaning, not dead. Otherwise it's still in play.

[Ausplosions]

Don't know if this helps you out. To me the wording 'stil' in play only implicate that the model has to be their. Meaning, not dead. Otherwise it's still in play.

Not buried AND not Dead.

[HalcyonSeraph]

To be clear, this is not to be wilfully obtuse, but because we have genuinely argued both sides at the club:

 

What is your evidence?

 

As others have said, my evidence is the complete lack of mechanics or rules referencing any such "memory" being part of the game state. We don't get to just make stuff up or hypothesize that it might work that way. 

[Señor_Ortega]

Pg 47 "When a model is buried it is removed from play"  

Bury = leave play

Unbury = still in play

[Mako]

That p47 section on bury/unbury also says this about unbury: 

 

 

When this happens, place the model back into play

 

So if you bury a model with bodyguard on it, it leaves play. When it unburies, it comes back into play. 

 

At the end of the turn, bodyguard checks the model's state - is it in play? If it is, score a VP. 

 

So buried at end of turn gives 0VP, while unburied (and not dead of course) gives 1VP. The game doesn't care about earlier events happening to that model, it simply checks the state at the point of scoring and applies the binary (in play / not in play) effect as relevant.