Maniacal_cackle

Nevermind, I forgot Changelings can't attach upgrades xD

It is probably easier to just comment on each affected model since there are so few: Ikiryo - Kirai is a summoner, not fussed about her starting without her totem. Lord chompy bits - Dreamer is a summoner Sovereign - Anya's affected for sure, but Anya + Sovereign seems pretty overpowered. Banasuva - Sandeep is a summoner. Hungering darkness - Lynch is a summoner. Viktoria - Viktoria is affected for sure, but double Viktorias just seems like it auto-wins the format. So for most of these crews, I think they're probably still plenty playable (and possibly so powerful that they get summons banned). Viktoria and Anya being affected is unfortunate, but I think they'd break the format having their totems.

Lynch is a summoner as well, but yeah Viktorias are hit pretty hard. But it'd be even worse to have two Viktorias in this format, I reckon 😜 That's a possibility!

Yeah, I reckon if you want to play super friends, you grab a different master. For necropunks, 1-2 leaps is all you need to run a break the line marker, so it was pretty reasonable. Due to his AP advantage I couldn't stop one of the necropunks (instead I just killed everything near the centre xD)

Oof, corner symbols for Jack Saw seems rough. Stealth is super good against Jack Daw as is butterfly jump. So I would definitely stock up on those. Then spread out and he should struggle to kill everything. For him, I would expect Outflank as he can score that better than you I imagine. Catch and release is probably doable for one point, but tricky? I don't know Jack Daw that well, but my last game I slaughtered him by avoiding the fight and forcing him to cross the board. That may be harder here - you may lose each model that claims a symbol, so have a plan for that.

It was his first Seamus crew and he brought super friends. Dead rider, manos, carrion emissary, and two necropunks. Needless to say, he did not have the cards to support his crew as much as I did. Though the necropunks worked surprisingly well, even with the mask requirement. I think he got 1-2 leaps out of each.

... My opponent ended up declaring Seamus and I had to rebuild my crew xD I took McMourning, Manos, Rogue Necromancy, Crooligan and it destroyed pretty hard. In a lot of ways, Manos + Rogue Necromancy felt better than Archie + something else, since Manos' leap is so much more reliable.

Yeah, so you can't have the expensive totems. I think it is mostly summoners that have expensive totems (other than Anya), so it largely should balance out I think.

Going to try again tonight and take this: Molly & Machine Dr McMourning Rogue Necro Archie Nurse Crooligan 4 stones I think this feels a lot better than the double crooligan. Bit sad to not have Dead Rider, but this is more of a hold your ground pool anyway (break the line and claim jump are in it), so will see how I go! Having three healers might be awesome or overkill. Will see!

Neat idea! You would probably want to include a mechanic for models to die on their own. Otherwise the master crew could just disable all the others and avoid killing them? Maybe end of turn, kill as many of your own models as you like? Or kill as many as you like but draw one less card for each?

All good suggestions! Will start tinkering!

Hmmm... Maybe 'no soulstone cache' is the solution. These masters all become a lot less lethal and easier to kill if there are no stones. I also thought maybe masters shouldn't be able to have upgrades (Seamus with whisper, Nekima with IR), but wondered if that is too clunky?

So in summary, the two biggest issues appear to be masters and summoning, which everyone is quite right to point out... But I think I'll give it a go and then update the format if needed for it.

Wow, I did not expect such great responses! Really well thought out comments here, will try to respond to all the points raised (let me know if I miss anything). I did worry about that, but then I also thought murder masters don't have as many good murder targets. There is only one badass on the board, and they can only cover so many parts of the board (like a master becomes a lot less powerful if they have to walk, walk, charge). So I think someone like Seamus becomes weaker than he appears. However, I am quite worried about masters that can hunt other masters effectively. Titania for example can murder another master over a turn or two while staying pretty safe herself. I'd probably want to see how the meta shakes out, but suspect you are right there are probably a few masters that would be too overpowered in this format. Another interesting thought is what if masters were limited to 2 AP? Then you'd have masters on the table but they'd still not be very game-defining. That said, I kind of like the idea of a game where masters are absolutely game-defining, but you still have lots of little models being useful. My hope is that while this would happen to a degree, there'd be a lot of cross keyword synergies that could be unlocked. I've always wanted to do triple Rotten Belle with Molly, or Canine Remains with Reva for example. I do know Ressers have a lot more 'good' cheap models than other factions, so my view would be skewed. But also the minions that qualify as 'good' may change once they don't have to worry about being one-shot by as many other models. Frontiersman for example suddenly become a LOT better. And even if you do superfriends, it will probably vary which ones are best in a given pool, so you may still get pretty good variety based on pools? My thinking is it would be like a regular game in terms of model numbers, but everything is weaker. So I'm hoping 35 is right! Although I thought maybe there needs to be a soulstone cache limit so masters can't be invincible... The Dreamer crew is an interesting example. Like Kirai, he loses his best summons and his totem, so I'm hoping it will balance out. Sandeep can't make golems. Som'er might be too strong, but won't have his critical enforcers and henchmen. So I would probably allow summoners at first and then ban it if needed. But summoning is definitely one of the top things on my list to watch out for. This is a great outlook, I hadn't considered that! I thought every crew had to be viable, but even if half the crews were viable it'd be a great format. Thanks for the thought! I thought about the small leader, but it just didn't have the 'epic' feeling of Malifaux. Probably worth trying it both ways, though. One issue with the OOK tax is you elimiante so many keywords because they just can't create a coherent crew with the restrictions. It also eliminates part of the point of the format (I want to see lots of things like Canine Remains on the table, but no way is anyone going to try them at 4 stones, even in Tiny Terrors). Totems I wanted to include, but then realised how terribly costed some of them are... Luna/Iggy Pup is going to be in every TT/ES list for example xD Yeah, for me that is a feature. A single master can't murder everything on the table. Shenlong without Fuhatsu for instance can't clear a board. They can go for a "I kill lots of things" approach, but the opponent still has options to out-scheme is what I'm hoping for. It may just degenerate and not work out, though. It is one of the biggest risks of the format (alongside summoning), I think...

Yeah, that occurred to me later. That said, in this specific pool I realised it would actually be better because assassinate was in the pool. And I'd rather he chase mcMourning aroung than get an easy kill on Molly xD

Oh yeah, I was just trying to elaborate on your point/why Nests aren't worth 4 stones. They're incredible value when they're free, they're not so much when they cost 4 stones.

Any reason Botanists are ranked so highly for McCabe? I got the Wild Ones Box (so Rough Riders) and the One Born Every Minute box and feel pretty set to play the keyword.

Great points xD For the nests, I think the whole point of them being amazingly efficient is that they're free. They get a lot less efficient if you have to spend 8 stones on the pair xD

I've been trying to think of different variations of a Tiny Terrors format. Initially I tried doing it with a leader that's worth something like 7-8 stones, but it just doesn't feel like Malifaux without masters. So instead I arrived at this format, what do you think? Updated 14/05/2021 Master & totem + 35 stones. Other than the master, no models that cost more than 6 stones. Can't hire them, can't summon, can't replace into them, etc. 6 is the limit. Totems are excluded as well, so no Lord Chompy Bits! You get one badass on the table. No OOK tax. Normal keyword/faction limits apply (i.e., you can't hire from outside your faction unless it shares a keyword). No faction upgrades. Soulstone cache limit: 2. Thoughts? Would this be a fun format? Reasonably balanced or horribly dominated by particular models? I think the lack of OOK tax means you could actually do quite a bit of teching (opponent has a bunch of stitched together? Good thing I brought a bunch of distracted...) Any obvious flaws to point out before I try to organise some games like this? Obviously it is a casual format so not necessarily meant for the extreme power-gaming, but I would potentially organise a local tournament for this if it takes off.

That's a good point. I got a grave digger early on for Grave Golem and Toshiro shenanigans, but I don't actually use it anymore. It's neat, but I don't think I'd ever recommend buying it to someone. Restless Spirit is sorta a better option as most crews it can serve just as well, but with Reva it is way better. Overall I think corpse generation isn't really efficient enough to be worthwhile outside of Reva and a few other niche situations.

That... Is a lot of discard for a temporary payoff 😜 But yeah, leaping Samurai sound good for example.

I think Iggy Pup at (2+1) stones has got to be one of the best deals for any crew that cares about its minions. Having those upgrades to pass around would be stellar. Imagine having them on Rotten Belles for instance xD

IMO, henchmen should have gotten free emissaries as totems to maintain the "roughly 20 stones of models for leader + totem" vibe.

Not a totem unfortunately

Something interesting might be "build a collection with 6 boxes or less" (singles like draugr or necropunks or rider count as half a box?) I think budget for one crew can essentially starter box + one core, but for something competitive you really want 5-6 boxes I suspect.