Bort

Most of the keywords behave like the master (either single or split over 2 factions). But here is the Keywords diagram: Without rearranging the circles I just added some arrows where some models didn't follow the master. I actually doubt I could rearrange the oval shapes in any way that will actually still make a sensible picture and show all the required overlaps. Some keywords shifted slightly to include a model from a different faction, but could remain in the picture (indicated in Italics): Bandit, Amalgam, Revenant, Wildfire. Others included between 1 and 3 models from different factions, shown with arrows on the diagram and *# notes given on the side. And I added 3 keywords all completely within the relevant faction that exist without a Master actually sharing the Keyword (indicated underlined): Witchling, Half-Blood, Vermin. I also added Asylum to Guild.... and forgot to add the arrow to Ressers. I mention Crossroads, Emissary of Fate, Horseman. And... I probably forgot some. But I think I covered most. Oh yeah... and Puppet is just messy. So I gave up on trying to really show that one.

Doh!. Fixed thanks.

I made a diagram showing how/where all the masters belong in the various factions. Thought I'd share it, may be useful to others to easily see/explain where who fits in. I started doing one for keywords but quickly realised a few things. a) Its 90% just changing the master name to that master's specific keyword. So might as well just look where the master is. b) The other 10% doesn't fit in the diagram as its currently drawn. Some Keyword exceptions that didn't fit the picture. Tri-chi Tricksy, in the form of Soulstone miner spans the Arcanist - Bayou gap. Asylum, in the form of Nurse spans the Guild - Resser gap. Foundry, requires overlap section for Arcanists - Ten Thunders - Bayou. Horseman, Puppet, Effigy and Emissary of Fate crosses all factions except ofc explorers. PS. Not sure if directly uploaded like this it will be readable. Hope it works otherwise I can make a different plan. *EDIT. Neverborn label fixed. Thanks.

Interesting. In my mind "black joker" was always a failed action no matter what. But re-reading p10 you are correct. For me the relevance is for when I'm using something like "Toss" on my own models, which doesn't have a TN. Been using it wrong.

I have no facts (actual game / tournament data) to stand on. Nor do I have a comprehensive list of battle reports. So I can't really comment on your 8000/10000 statement. May be completely true. May be perception. May be local meta. All I can say is that with the complexity of the game I feel people should be looking at ingame (as in currently already existing and maybe undiscovered options) instead of continually changing the game. Because guess what... they errata things now, and next week we will simply be complaining about the next thing that is "just above the curve". Only, we will call it "absolutely broken and horribly OP" instead of "just above the curve". With access to info as it is (internet and hive mind thinking) this is the way of all games. You have the "best in slot" option that everyone uses. Make a change to "best in slot" and all it does is make room for the next "best in slot" option. If all things were equal, well, then nothing would be good and we might as well just use our fate decks to play solitaire. Constant changing and errata is a viable way of doing things. I simply like more time to explore options before chasing down the next culprit.

Just playing Devil's Advocate. There are what? About 57 keywords. That means 3249 games just to have each keyword play each other once. With x4 for the four possible strategies and x4 for the possible deployments. That's 51984 games. The complexity of this game is such that it will never be "solved" or "balanced". There will ALWAYS be people feeling something is unbalanced. Basically the game is always ready for changes/updates ... and never ready to state whether it is now balanced. Personally I feel a lot more time needs to pass before changes are made. Too many models don't exist yet. But then... I only just restarted playing again, and I play about a game a month. So my perception of "too many changes too fast" is not a real good baseline. Not saying that this isn't a productive thread. Obviously the pro players will pick up which models are slightly above the curve and focus on them. And then in time people will learn how to counter that.

Hmm, I missed/forgot that they are "living/undead" restricted. Back in Closed Beta the Riotbreakers had a built in ability with similar wording to "Laugh Off" (has since been replaced with "Unyielding".) Either way, it was a great help against Lure and other move shenanigans my opponent tried to use. So LLC definitely has its uses beyond the extra armor. Stopping resistance triggers etc. from pushing you away is useful.

Got some interesting answers thanks. Was more a sentimental view on wanting to stay with Guild. But as my only master I guess I'll be declaring Arcanist mostly, unless I want to do something very specific. Mostly thanks to Melissa I have an unhealthy liking towards Run&Gun. So "No Prisoners" upgrade will probably pull me towards an occasional Guild game.

Aah, well, there was lots of stuff being moved around or being controlled. Moral of the story... don't get drunk poisoned. And no worries, I'm pretty certain I messed up things too.

Can't recall all the exact details, but no pass tokens or high cards. Would have had to purely rely on the draw and flip of the next round. So in this case it was a really big gamble. Obviously my opponent didn't know that, so he couldn't be certain of the size of the gamble. But thanks. I get that its very situational, and in my case it worked out. I was just curious to see how more experienced players would have handled the situation. Don't always know my opponent's stuff, and he was healing a lot. But in retrospect a lot of this is self healing by drinking from flasks, which the Golem doesn't have. At that point in the game I was under the (mostly incorrect) impression that the golem could easily be healed back up again.

Thanks for the replies. Ok, so gut feeling that I should just try to kill the Golem and be done was probably the safer choice.

I might have the exact details mixed up. Was late (both in real time and in the game) I do recall my opponent was thinking of using the force field to rid the tokens but then couldn't (failed). Guess it was the other way around. Melissa got commanded into Joss. Will keep the "cannot charge" in mind next time. Because I also used Joss' robo-obey on the Whiskey Golem, although itwas out of melee range. Either way, Joss ended up hurting her feelings a bit by exploding right next to her, instead of 2" away from Brewmaster and Fingers as he was supposed to.

I started playing Malifaux as an invited opponent during Closed Beta. I liked Hoffman's fluff, so my first game was with him. From there I playtested and gave comments / batreps on quite a few of the Guild masters during the closed Beta. With the occasional Hoffman game inbetween, him still being my favourite master. (Not claiming I'm an expert or anything. More pointing out that every single Beta game I played was with Guild) Then life got in the way and I kinda lost track of Malifaux. Then a Hoffman crew ended up in my hands (due to said opponent's generosity) Now I have one challenge to you Guild players. Give me a reason to stay with Guild. I find that playing Hoffman with Arcanists simply opens up way more options than Guild.

Hehe, now if only you guessed the name of the box correct. That would have been prescient.

Be aware as @thatlatinspeakingguy pointed out it can really grow fast. Due to budget/time constraints I was not planning to spend on Malifaux. But then I got given a small Hoffman crew (stater + a few additional models) as a gift. And now I find it hard not to look at other masters/options. Simply because I like trying different mechanics. I absolutely love the constructs... but found that where I started with Hoffman, I quickly started looking at how it plays different when using Versatile models. And from there I started looking at Ramos, Foundry, M&SU etc. My point is, this game gives a LOT of playstyle options. And most masters have something that feels unique to them. So go for it, start with what you think you want to try. But beware, what you "want to try" will most likely grow quite a bit.

(Sorry, long story for a simple question. But I felt some background / detail was required) I played a Reckoning game (My Hoffman vs. Brewmaster) recently. Note. I have an unholy fear of the Whiskey Golem ever since a terrible game in closed Beta where it killed Justice and Hoffman and poisoned all of my crew in about 2 turns. So my view on the thing is maybe a bit biased. The following situation came up: At the end of the 2nd turn I had already killed a model that turn (so Reckoning point earned). I also had the Whiskey Golem and one other model down to 1 or 2 wounds. And my opponent's hand was either empty or severely whittled down at this point. Last activation (both sides done) of the turn was Joss. Last action on Joss,who could take a shot at the Golem. Now Joss' range attack ignores armor, and with minimum 2 dmg he was in a very good spot to kill the Golem. The Golem on the other hand is quite close to Ryle (who is also in a bad spot at this stage), as well as able to charge into my lines spreading poison at will. Opponent points out that I'm now in a perfect position for the Strategy. With 2 models on low wounds I should easily be able to get my T3 Reckoning point as well. I gamble it and lucked out. I pass up the shot on Joss, focussing instead. Win initiative (by cheating in a 13, but still). Activate Joss first, then take the shot and kill the Golem. Giving a really good T3 start for Reckoning. So, my question is this: Did I make the right choice? Leave the scary thing for better "Reckoning" or just kill it when the easier opportunity is there. On the one hand things turned out perfect. T3 reckoning scored. Golem killed before he could do more damage. Etc. On the other hand, if I had lost the initiative the Golem would have most likely killed Ryle, giving my opponent his Reconing point, and probably spread some more poison into my guys before going out. And taking the shot with control hands refilled (and already cheating a 13 to win the initiative) is much harder.

Just an update to say that I finally had a good game with Joss. Turns out Electric Discharge was the perfect answer to my brewmaster Whiskey Golem issue. Even though in the end Fingers suggested to him to go have a chat with Melissa. Which led him to die to poison, and do some harsh damage and injuries to her. But it was the first time he felt worth his points. So I guess my initial thoughts on him was simply due to lack of experience.

I don't know nearly enough about the game to cast a vote. But I am interested in the results.

Hmmm, the common solution here seems to be the Soulstone miner. I don't have any, and never played them. (only have a handful of Augmented guys so far) So between the hate I see from other factions, and love I see from this faction I'm guessing I should look into getting at least one.

So, very open ended question. If I build a list, and end up in the 46 - 47 SS range. Is it going to be better to just take the stones, or add the Mobile Toolkit? My feeling is that the Field Repairs will be able to heal more than a stone damage prevention will prevent. So far I have advantages of taking the stones. Toolkit has to be at the right place at the right time. Using a stone to prevent damage can keep a model alive. Dead models can't be healed. Insignificant means he is not scoring points. Advantages of taking the toolkit Its extra activation. I play quite reactively generally. (Which may be a bad thing and maybe requires its own thread. ) It only has the 3 wounds, but with 1 armor and higher defense than any other Augmented it should at least survive a shot or two, and this means other guys are not taking shots. 3/4/5 heal is really good.

Easy answer. Arcanist Hoffman, cause, well, that's all I own. Guess technically I also own Guild Hoffman though.

I don't feel I have near enough experience to give tips. But I can give 2 things I keep doing wrong. 1. Don't get caught up in the moment and just react. This is a trap I fall into time and time again. Opponent does something scary to me early on with one of his models. I immediately activate and deal with this thread. This is wrong for 2 reasons. It totally distracts me from what I was planning on doing, and forcing my activation sequence. The thread already did what it was going to do. It activated, and is done. (Obviously with exceptions where other models give it more actions). Point is, I probably don't have to deal with it immediately. I can deal with it later in my turn when the timing is much better, while I can instead put pressure where I want to. 2. Soulstones CAN prevent damage at critical times. This is an obvious one... but one that I have definitely not mastered yet. I tend to fill up my force total with models, taking very few or 0 SS cache.

Hunter didn't die to Ronin 1 because Black Joker damage was flipped. Ronin 2 still took 3 attacks to kill Joss. Even if it was her own activation with Flurry she has 3 attacks, ignoring armor, which requires 1 flip of Severe and he would be dead. (assuming I don't spend stones to keep him alive, which I clearly could and should have done) The only point I was trying to make is that I don't agree with the statement @mythicFOX made that Ignore armor is a red herring. When used correctly as my opponent clearly did, it hurts, A LOT. *Edit. By design armor is compensated for both by lower DF and lower amount of wounds. So ignoring the armor is good against Hoffman.

Thanks for all the replies. Will give him another go and hopefully be able to revise my opinion.

In my last game it was a nightmare. 2 Ronin went through my force like a hot knife through butter. They killed a Hunter and Joss in one turn. Maybe it doesn't sound like much, but when a 6 point model kills a 8 point one, and another a 10 point one in one activation it really hurts.