thewrathchilde

On 10/16/2019 at 4:08 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

He IS fantastic. Largely this is due to his mobility (leap without needing a mask, unlike Manos?)

with Siphon Power Manos essentially has the built in suit. It also gives you the flexibility to be able to hit the Sudden Strike trigger as long as you have either of the suits as you can Siphon for the other. 

On 10/16/2019 at 4:08 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

But he is also overhyped. He is very susceptible to counter charges and dying. He is the king of scheme runners, but struggles with big fights where he is taking big hits.

Agree

15 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I agree. He would be at a much lower power level if they even took off the built in mask on his leap.

Please don’t give them ideas. No self castration this early in M3E.,..... way to early to make the argument that he needs to be changed. 

13 hours ago, HadjiMurat said:

Can you, or anyone, elaborate more about when you prefer Seb over Rafkin?

Sebby is considerably more survivable with HtW and the ability to use stones. He is also Size 1 which provides some benefits in terms of being able to hide and protect him while he is getting in position. It can also provide some drawbacks as well with his Auras so you have to be careful with that as well. 

Generally i prefer Sebby because in addition to the additional survivability he is better offensively as well. He has the same Shockwave attack as Rafkin but also has a better melee attack (Stat 7 vs. Stat 6, built in Infect, Critical Strike (not built in)). Rafkin does have Rip and Tear on his melee which is nice but without being able to use stones you have to have a high Ram in hand to guarantee the attack.  Sebby also brings options with Wicked on his attacks as well so he can do damage on the Disengage instead of reducing the push. Instead of swapping Poison he can Rip the poison off to do damage up t a 5 damage hit which is nice. 

He also brings Ruthless as well which can be a game changer against certain opposing crews. 

Quote

I don't own Rafkin atm, so I haven't testet out my McM crew yet cause every list I see includes Rafkin. And he seems vital for the poison mechanic stacking.

Rafkin does let you stack a couple of extra poison first turn but generally this isn’t needed. For players that are using his Shockwave to add poison Sebby has the same ability. 
 

the difference in the poison stack is really just his end of activation pulse (1 poison) and the pulse (1 poison) when he concentrates. In most matches you can put enough out on the key models with the starting poison from Doc, the Chihuahua, and a Gasser that you can live without Rafkin. Those tools give you 6 poison starting on most of the crew plus an extra 2 on the Doc for a total of 8 with the Chihuahua attacking him and you can stack a couple of more from the Smashed trigger from the Nurse. 
 

After the initial bursts you can use the Chihuahua and Gasser on following turns to bump up some more on the crew while also splashing it into the enemies. Similarly Sebby can catch your guys in the Shockwave ad well though generally I just prefer his melee attack over his Shockwave. 
 

the place I find the most use for Rafkin and the additional poison is those games where there is a lot of ping, pulse, or condition damage like from Kaeris where you are counting on the poison to offset the damage from things like burning or Lethe’s Caress. 
 

Even with only 6-8 poison starting out with models in the Catalyst range that is still 3-4 points of healing first turn through third turn without even being topped off. With the occasional pulse from the Chihuahua and Gasser that sustains it longer and increases the healing. 

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I believe Kentauroi are plentiful (2) now. 
 

good thing we only considered instead of tried using 3 then. I will edit my above accordingly. 

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Are kentauroi a must take? I don't own them and had hoped to scrape by on what I already own since I'm not heavily invested in ressers.

I think they are but that may be personal preference. They speed up the crew considerably  and help with the mobility of your slower models too. This is essential for being able to isolate and attack sections of the opponent’s crew on your terms . 
 

They also greatly enhance your ability to position models and accomplish a range of schemes- they can get deep for things like Search and Breakthrough, they can put out multiple markers for things like Harness, Search, and Detonate. They also have a good wound pool and stacked with poison have a lot of healing which lets them do things like push Idols. 
 

They also provide another source of solid damage output for the crew. I would never leave home without them in the Doc’s crew and would drop Sebby or Rafkin before I dropped a Kentauroi.

Doc is a flex crew for me. It is maneuverable enough that it can be a backup for Plant or Turf and it is resilient enough that it can push Idols really well too. Doc is rarely the number 1 choice for me in a given match but he is a great second choice if I am playing something that forces me to use different masters in each round. 

I used him in Nova as my choice for the duplicate Plant Explosives game (standard deployment) so I could save Molly for Plant (corner deployment). As mentioned above I have used him well in Turf and Idols as well. He can do Recokoning pretty well too with a  hit and run crew. 

Generally I play something similar to Doc w/Killer Instinct, Chihuahua, Rogue Necro, Rafkin, Kentauroi, Kentauroi, Nurse, Gasser + stones. 

I swap Sebby & Rafkin in and out depending on what I think I am more apt to need. I prefer Sebby but Rafkin helps with the setup. I usually do a minimal setup with them using the Chiuahua, Gasser, and Rafkin to put an initial poison load on the crew (Chihuahua also attacks with trigger Infect for more Poison)  and then shift to moving on the weak flank with the Rogue, and double Kentauroi taxi service. 

It is a great crew and a lot of fun. I haven't had a bad game with it at all.....it just never seems it is the best pick for the job though it is often a good pick for the job. 

@Fetid Strumpet hit the nail on the head. It is a situationally amazing ability. I get great mileage out of it, and like him, field a 50% non-Redchapel crew the majority of the time with Seamus. 
 

Typically I run 2 x Doxies and a Nurse in my lists which gives me some movement shenanigans in addition to the other things those models do. When you get enough games in with him that you can start forecasting where/when he is going to be you can start setting up situations that let you capitalize off of Why Hello Love without compromising your decision process just to get the extra attacks. 
 

The trap is some players make the wrong decisions (activation order, resources, target priorities) to get the extra attacks when other decisions were more appropriate for the situation. 
 

I tend to play Redchapel really aggressively when the match allows and often have turns and activation where Seamus is triggering Why Hello Love multiple times in his activation and in the turn on some early turns and then that’s usually game......you just have to balance your decisions and evaluate the risks to make sure your aren’t compromising the game over an extra attack. 

I am not a big Reva fan...nothing against those that are I just don't see hardly any situation where I would take her over another master in the faction except maybe for a fun demo game.

However, were I to try  her I might try something like: Reva w/Upgrade, Corpse Candle, Corpse candle, Anna Lovelace, Restless Spirit, Draugr, Draugr, Lampad, Lampad

Has some movement tricks, some resiliency and recursion, and can do a decent amount of damage. 

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmmm... This difference likely just is due to our default number of crooligans. Since I don't own as many models and commonly field 2-3 crooligans, putting 1-2 of them in an awkward position for my opponent just feels great.

They spend 2-3 actions running after my crooligan, and then the crooligan just teleports away on its activation and wastes all that movement for them. It can even spend its first turn focusing, so it is not entirely wasted. If they don't deal with it, that is an easy scheme secured (or a failed bluff).

most of my opponents don't bother chasing the Crooligans unless they can catch them and one round them in combat knowing they are going to pitch a card and get away. If my opponent does chase them to a corner then its because they have their own Outflank, etc to score and the Crooligan isn't enough combat power to stop them. 

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Of course, that is only viable with multiple crooligans! I always have one ready to interact turn one. On plant explosives, they all start in base as they can't carry bombs otherwise. I'd say about 20-30% of the time, a crooligan ends up out of the shadows for me (for example, this setup has two schemes worth bluffing if the terrain is right).

 

In Plant I do routinely take 3 Crooligans but it is often the only time I take 3 unless it is an extremely marker heavy pool. Even so at that point I am taking Archie, the Rogue Necro, and the Rider so I have quite a bit of speed and combat power to go with it while the Crooligans are going for scheme saturation and blitzing in and out for counter scheming as well. 

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If using him as a beacon for crooligans, Rogue necromancy is really the main substitution option. However, P&N is also a good beacon, so P&N + dead rider for instance might work.

the NM is the beacon of choice for me when the Rider is available for the first turn taxi service. 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Think I heard you in another recent podcast after the nova (?) tournament! Your appearances on the podcasts are always useful. I have some questions if you don't mind having a look!

Anytime. I am always up for discussion of ideas...sometimes I am busy enough at work that its take me until the evening to get a chance to reply and do justice to a topic.

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I can borrow Rogue Necromancy easily enough. Who are the Twins? Dead Rider I'll probably wait for an M3E release, but may see if I can pick one up in a sale.

the Twins are Archie & Manos.  They are both 9 SS/10 out of keyword, both are high mobility, have a leap, can be min 3 damage, can heal/regen, and are great picks out of keyword that can work as well as most of the versatile models with a number of masters.....they are twins just not identical. 

This was a shorthand or slang term for both that came out of one of my early guest appearances on a podcast or in one of the chats. 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What is it that you don't like about the crooligans? I figured the crooligans were useful because they make the scheme marker schemes (or denying) trivial. They're also really good for bluffing (deploy them from the shadows as if I'm going for power ritual, then pull them out if the enemy comes after them). I don't find them as useful for activating again with Molly, though, as I usually run them all over the rest of the board after turns 1 and 2 (although I guess that's when you need the extra activation delay the most).

It's not the I don't like them; I love Crooligan and they are some of my favorite minions in keyword and faction. I just don't think you need all 3 in Turf War. A lot of times you can get by with 1 or maybe 2 if it is a scheme marker heavy pool. Especially with reactivation where you can virtually guarantee activation control 1 is enough to zip in late and tip a marker in your favor or deny the opponent and then get back out at the start of the next turn before they can be dealt with. 

Usually I never deploy them with From the Shadows as you give up the ability to Interact first turn. I do use them for deception in deployment or with bluffing schemes but I want to be able to Interact first turn to start getting markers in place, Turf Markers flipped, etc. 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What would you recommend? Would you take something like Archie, Dead Rider, Rogue Necromancy, crooligan + some flex slots based on matchup? Who do you usually use to flip the markers (or are you more focused on denying)

I try to use killing to flip their markers to Neutral and then a Crooligan or any available model (NM) to flip them to me. I usually set up 2-3 markers first turn and then only need to flip 1 or 2 in subsequent turns so don't need 3 Crooligans to do it. I prefer to have more combat power and survivability to mitigate the risk of soft targets that can allow my opponent to flip markers through easy kills. 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also, just out of curiousity, what do you reckon are Molly's order of strategies? I personally think that she is fantastic at Corrupted Idols and Plant Explosives.

I play different masters and often rotate based on what I *want* to play based on other factors rather than strictly who is the best for a strategy.....at NOVA the Iron Scorpius award required using a different leader every round for example.....I also factor the schemes into the decision of who to play in a given pool also. With Ressers we have a bunch of great masters that can play almost all/most of the strategies so you can option out based on the opposing faction. 

For Molly IMO Plant is her best strategy, Turf is probably my second choice, Idols third, and Reckoning 4th.....she can do any of them but I usually have other preferred picks in some of them.  

For Plant I like Molly, Albus, Doc; Seamus can do it too but I prefer the others. For Turf I will use any of the Resser Masters and decide based on the rest of the pool and the opposing crew. In Idols I will run Kirai, McMourning, Molly, Seamus, or Yan. In Reckoning I can/will run just about any of them as well much like in Turf and will base the decision on the other factors. Yan is usually my default though for Reckoning. 

https://thirdfloorwars.com/molly-malifaux-3rd-ed-master-deep-dive/

Molly is amazing in Turf War; I think it is her 2nd best strategy...........but half or more of the Resser masters can do Turf War well.

I would not take 3 Crooligans in that pool as you don't need it. I would probably take 1.....definitely not more than 2. 1 or 2 reactivating is all you need for out activation usually and if you play elite Molly you probably won't even need that. 

The Twins are amazing in Turf War with Molly too and you definitely need to expand your bench for her and pick up the Rogue Necro and the Dead Rider. 

On 9/9/2019 at 7:50 AM, Butch said:

So what would a typical list look like?

I don't know that there is a typical list. Usually about 50-60% of my Redchapel crews are pretty standard  the rest is a salt to taste. Closest would be something like:

Seamus w/Upgrade (2), Copycat Killer (0), Emissary (10), Archie/Sybelle/Manos (10), Dead Doxy (6), Dead Doxy (6), Nurse (7), Belle/Dandy + 4-5 stones

I usually go with Archie or Manos over Sybelle depending on what I need for the pool and have run both of them in quite a few Seamus led crews with a lot of success. Like @Fetid Strumpet I usually play quite a bit of OOK with Seamus for a lot of the same reasons though he and I tend to build a lot of things differently. There are some occasions where I would consider Bete but she is a scheme dependent choice for me. 

Imma go a different route. If you want to play the Emissary then go with Seamus. You really do need the Mindless Zombies (or at least one or two which you may be able to get separately) but the synergy between the Emissary and Seamus is virtually unmatched elsewhere within the keywords.

The Emissary gives you Terrifying saturation with Redchapel crew and Terrifying is much more effective when you have a lot of it to pressure the opposing players hand and multiple models and actions. The Emissary also enables Seamus with the MZ significantly enhancing his damage out put buy letting him shoot multiple times per turn. 

You can still get Archie also for just 1 additional point above cost in a Forgotten crew (though he appears to be out of stock everywhere) and have even more big model terrifying as well. 

10 hours ago, frumpypigskin said:

I think im missing something... I have spent a bit of time thinking about how to optimise turn one for MEI. I don't understand how you can do some of your interacts on turn 1.

 

Otherwise I'm flabbergasted I never thought of shielding Niel so he can reckless for for the cost of a gamin action and no wound. That's a nice tradeoff. Especially if that's the gamin making your first scrap anyway!

I was in a hurry and thinking like in Flank Deployment where you start in contact.....not an issue and still works just slows you down a little. Deployment is key to group the Forgeling, Mei, the Pig and Golem correctly. As you said the Rail Worker can charge and toss the Forgeling and flip the marker.  The Forgeling Removes Inpurity, and double walks to drop scrap further up the board. On the other side the other Gamin walks, flips, and Magnetism toward the Forgeling and drops another scrap. The second Gamin Shields Neil, Magnetism, and walks into the group to drop scrap in the center of the Mei/Neil/Pig/Golem/Rail Worker circle.

Golem or Pig can then go deeper and provide the Rails for Mei and the Pig to be real deep first turn. 

I will jump on the Mei bandwagon. She is great for Turf war as she can bring tons of mobility and some pretty survivable models who don't easily give up marker flips. She can also get in there and disrupt and get the long range assassin runs on models to get the twofer of removal and a marker flip:

Mei (0), Forgeling (0), Metal Golem (10), Mech Porkchop (7), Neil (8), Miner w/Magical Training (8) Metal Gamin (5), Metal Gamin (5), Rail Worker (5) + 2 SS

First turn the Rail Worker can Pneumatic Toss the Forgeling and  flip a marker. Gamin # 2 flips a marker, Magnetism toward the rest of the crew,  drops shielded on Neil, and drops a scrap for everyone to Ride the Rails from. With the Forgeling and the Pig or Golem you can drop scrap pretty far out to set up the Rails for getting as deep as you need. Miner can do miner things....than Neil, the Pig going fast can go deep and with Mei can strike pretty deep in their lines to attack  weak flank or go after some key targets if they have moved up any and take down  couple of models flipping markers back at the end of the turn. With 9 activations you are pretty sure of being able to keep the key models till late in the turn.

I would most likely take Breakthrough and Harness the Ley Line or Assassinate. The Gamin or Rail Worker can do any of the schemes pretty easily or fast Neil or the Pig can as a backup and with Mei, the Golem, and the Pig (an Neil if needed) in their face you are putting a lot of pressure on them quickly. You can really take any of the schemes even Power Ritual which I usually avoid like the plague in standard deployment but this crew has the speed to do it. The list starts a little light on Stones but with the Miner making more and only Mei using them it should be enough. I like Magic Training on Neil as well but with the Gamin there to get one of two Shielded on him when you can cheat the suit that is really all he needs to go deep and fast without wounding himself too much early. 

I have played a version of this in Plant Explosives with a lot of success with only minor changes and it can do Turf as easily too. 

On 7/9/2019 at 10:26 AM, Ludvig said:

@Ender101

Third floor wars lately

I agree! Lots of good content lately.

Favorite episodes?

From what I hear there is more Resser content coming soon that Craig and various guests have done!

@SoulGambit have you listened to the Third Floor Wars Podcast on Molly that was released two months ago?

https://thirdfloorwars.com/molly-malifaux-3rd-ed-master-deep-dive/

2 hours ago, IronmanKC81 said:

Doxies are not bad models. I really fought for their point reduction, which I’m glad it happened because they were awful at 7 stones. 

I was just taking nurses. I still feel like doxies need a little bit more, but at least they’re not Belles.

A dandy is better than a belle. 

I still take a Nurse with Seamus most of the times. After the Belles I just don't have a lot of reason to take most of the other minions and a Nurse provides so much utility.

2 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

A reminder that Distracted doesn't matter for Resist flips.

yeah, you are right.....was getting my wires crossed on that one. Is still decent for stripping focus and making it harder or models to retaliate on your models with low defense. 

13 hours ago, Da Git said:

Why do you guys rate Doxies so highly? Is it mostly for their Seduction to put out mass Distraction? 

I rarely use Seduction. It can be useful sometimes to give someone Distracted before Seamus blasts into them with the .50....usually though I am primarily using them to move things around, scheme, or for their melee attack. 

With Disguised and the Regret defensive trigger they are pretty survivable against melee and can blunt the rush from aggressive crews. They are also great for helping position key models to maximize their effectiveness. They have a pretty good melee attack for their cost though I rarely get much benefit out of any of the triggers except the Tome trigger. Not too bad as scheme runners either.

Yeah, I agree with @Fetid Strumpet on this one. I played a game last night to force myself to take Sybelle again to see how much benefit I could get out of Beckoning Call. My though was using is on my stuff to help position early and then combat with her or using Beckoning Call later to put things out of position to score or give Seamus more attacks or use her for combat since she is min 3 with good triggers.

My list: Seamus w/The Whisper (2), Copycat (0), Sybelle (10), Emissary (10), Doxy (6), Doxy (6), Nurse (7), Belle (5) + 4 SS. 

Game was Turf War (Corner); w/Harness, Search, Take Prisoner, Assassinate, Hold  Up

I took Harness and Search. I ended up pulling it out and winning by a few points. I was able to get the jb done and get some value out of Sybelle in a couple of situations. The Emissary performed well as always when he makes my list.

My biggest problem with Sybelle was the TN required for Beckoning call so that even when I am using it on my own stuff she was often failing the TN and I was having to choose between using a high card that I wanted to save for hit/damage with Seamus or wasting the action. It just isn't a reliable enough action with the TN to consistently top deck and I felt like it wasn't a good choice to even risk it half the time. 

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Interesting, I don't tend to take GST on Seamus. I basically always take the Whisper for...

There are good arguments for either. With The Whisper and the right targets he can get some decent efficiency and card draw. In this pool I wanted the flexibility to able to push Idols with all of my big pieces if needed. 

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Carrion Emissary is a common inclusion most games. 

He frequently makes my Seamus crews as well. In this game with Idols I wanted the leaps and heals/regeneration more. 

44 minutes ago, SoulGambit said:

Offhand, with my grand total zero table time, starting point for a Redchapel List is looking like...

Seamus, CCK, Carrion Effigy, and Dead Doxy x2 for 26 points. Then it is two of: Bete Noir, Nurse, Asura Roten, The Forgotten Marshel, Archie, Dead Rider

Effigy can’t heal Seamus, the CCK, or he Nurse so rarely makes my lists with him. Bete, Asura, and the Marshall don’t either.

Last night I ran: Seamus w/GST (2), CCK (0), Manos (10), Archie (10), Doxy (6), Doxy (6), Nurse (7), Belle (5) + 4SS

Was Corrupted Idols- Flank, Power Ritual, Search, Harness, Assassinate, and Dig. 

50 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

so I generally don't walk to set up a Daze attack push.

I typically don’t walk with him either if I can help it..... sometimes though it’s worth it. Same amount of actions as Secret Passage and if it puts him in the right spot.

Between Charges, Trail of Confusion,  Secret Passage and the Pushes from the Doxies and Nurse and/or Ride with Me he can often get to where he needs to be without walking. Ideally I want every action of his to matter- attack, scheme, strategy, etc. 

2 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

@thewrathchilde How much use are you getting from “Hello Love”?

More than you might think. Usually in every game with him I get at least 2-3 extra attacks out of him on critical turns sometimes more. With 2 x Doxies, a Nurse, and the Dazed trigger on his gun I have a fair amount of ways to move things around usually.  I don't know if I have every played him in M3E since the reorientation without 2 x Doxies and the Nurse is a staple for me as well. 

The list I played at game night last night also had Archie (I know) in it so "Bowled Over" is another source (though not as reliable). Most of the time the Nurse is near him so she can heal/move/give focus and she has Daze built in on her attack so can push things to him as well. If it is something that is low defense she can hit it and push it to him so he can attack, then attack it again and push it back out so he isn't engaged and can shoot. In a game I had a couple of weeks ago with him against @Gaston's Titania/Zoraida crew on the first couple of turns I was able to an extra 2-3 attacks per turn into Knights and Waldgeists between Daze from his gun and Daze from the Nurse. 

Usually with the amount of mobility support in the crew I can move/Secret Passage/or push him to 4" away from a model and then if I have the cards, shoot it, Daze to push it in for the free attack to finish it off and then continue on. Occasionally you can get him within 4" of two models and he can shoot, daze, Hello Love the first model. Remove it's corpse for Celebration, shoot, Daze, and Hello Love the second one too and still have two actions left for charging, scheming, etc. 

I am less successful in getting the Belle to set it up for him though.....with the Doxies and Nurse it happens every game. 

2 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I need to try a dedicated build for it, but every single time I’ve left Seamus out on the table in a position to potentially use it he always gets hit with a massive spike of dmg. Df 4 is just asking for a focused shot to the face, and at least to me, it always happens.

I don’t think he’s been hit for less than 5 any time he has been hit, which I admit is rare, since I don’t generally leave him on the table for easy reprisal.

Yeah, I Yo-Yo him a lot as he is not near as resilient as he was in M2E. Half of the CCK's job (maybe more) is just Mistaken Identity and then run back and hide to keep him safe if they have any real threats. The Nurse helps out a lot also since with positioning she can Bedside Manner him out of trouble and back behind terrain and then heal, etc later. 

I have thought about running 2 x Nurses with him instead of 1 and the Belle that was in my list last night but their isn't a lot of fat in my list to pay for the 2 extra points. Last night I only had 4 SS with him and couldn't see going lower.