Ikvar

These are the abilities: Smother: Enemy models Activating within 3 of one or more models with this Ability must pass a TN 12 Wp duel or receive Slow. Feed on Dreams: Enemy models that receive Slow within 3 of this model suffer 1 damage. So even though I have 5alps within 3 of a model, they would only have to take one 12WP duel, but will however get slow from all of them, and therefore receive 5wd? I thought they had to make a wp duel from all of them, but only receive slow one at a time, making them able to defend themself isolated from each Alp.

Another random question- does the enemy have to flip for every Alp in 3 for the ability "Smother", or only one time like a horror duel?

If an ability states that something happens when you flip a card, would that include cheating from your hand, or only if you literally flipped a card from your stack of cards? - fx with an ability like " Leave it to Luck" from Mr. Tannen.

That exact rule seems pretty hard for many people to understand, as I have had trouble convincing other players that this is how the rules work... I think the problem is the fact that many other systems play it exactly like the OP wrote?(I have only played Malifaux myself, so I have no idea ^^) But having to actually look down at the models level, and see if you physically can see the head of the other model(or half the model as many have told me)... that just seems extremely time consuming in the long run.

Well that is true, but if your opponent are trying to focus him, LCB could act as quite a good shield, where the dreamer might have died if it was only him - but just the fact that you got both options you can choose from during the game, makes him extremely versatile.

Dammit you guys, you just ruined my dreams!(pun intended ^^) Anyway, he still seems like bordering to OP with his 7AP in one activation- If you start out with the Dreamer, and summon LCB would you guys normally use LCB zero afterwards for the Dreamers passive healing, or would you keep him as LCB making it almost impossible to kill him as they would first have to kill LCB, and then kill the Dreamer with all his DF triggers etc?

What about this strategy for starting a game: 1. You make sure to place The Dreamer as far up the board as possible 2. Summon 3alps 6inches up the board 3. use this ability on a random model, as it does not state that you cant use it on a friendly model (1) Surrounded by Nightmares (Sh 7 / Rst: Wp / Rg: 8): Target model suffers 1 damage for each Nightmare within 3" and LoS of it which it considers an enemy. 4. You have now summoned LCB 5. move LCB 8 up the board, and use his zero to summon the Dreamer back again This way you have now summoned 3models, but have still been able to take the dreamer far up the board- in reference to your comment about loosing if you keep him in your deployment zone

That would be insane, do you have a page I can look at for reference?

That seems quite powerful... have you ever felt like it is a bit to much? - I mean 7AP in one turn, able to both summon 3models, be annoying with one of his SH abilities , and then kill stuff with LCB... and all in one turn O_o Or is it only on paper he seems like a bit of a nightmare to be against?

I got a bit of a noob question, but can I activate LCB use his 3AP, then use his zero ability afterwards to summon the Dreamer, and then use the Dreamers full 4AP, meaning you will have a master with 7AP (as LCB will have melee expert from upgrade, and dreamer have Range expert). Next turn you will then activate dreamer- use 3AP to summon alps, and then use a SH action from Range Expert giving him 4waking, summon LCB and kill stuff with his 3AP etc etc?

So you would consider Sorrows more important then Insisdouse Madness in a heavy Dreamer/WP crew? And wouldent Widow Weaver almost be a must in a crew focusing on wp?

Hmm, it seems like me and my Malifaux group might have played the whole "push into base contact" a bit wrong. Lets take the ability from Teddy: "After Damaging, push the target 4 in any direction, then push this model into base contact with the model". seeing as it does not say "directly" anywhere, we have always played it so you could just place Teddy anywhere, as long as he was in bace contact... But looking at it now, the generel rule for push is of course in a direct line(pg.43)... need to remember this ^^

Any chance I can get you to make a list with that crew? - just what you would generally use with a strategy like that. Would a list like this be a bit to much investment in that one strategy? Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap The Dreamer -- 4 Pool +Restless Dreams [1] +Tantrum [2] Daydream X 3 [6] Insidious Madness [5] Insidious Madness [5] Sorrow [5] Sorrow [5] Teddy [11] Widow Weaver [8] And then use the first 2 turns to summon alps, before LCB comes out to play

You might be misising out on some damage if you dont take a least one beatstick like Teddy? - I am a complete Dreamer noob though, so might be wrong ^^ I know at least from other masters that you will have a problem if you only have controle-models, and even more so when you only have fragile controle-models

I am loving all this talk about the Dreamer, as I want to start playing with him soon aswell- will be following this thread impatiently from the sideline

Severe terrain does not block a push though...

I have yet to play with it, but will try it next week. But it seems like a very mixed bag as I have a very hard time seeing when the first ability would actually come in my favor, however the next ability might be worth it?

"Useless Duplications: Whenever an enemy model takes a SH Attack Action against an unengaged friendly Mimic model within this model's LoS, the enemy model must randomly determine its target between all models within 2" of the target as if it were shooting into an engagement. Seeing Double: When a friendly Mimic within 3" and LoS is targeted by a y Attack Action, this model may discard a card to give the Attacking model - to the Attack flip." The first ability says that the friendly mimic needs to be unengaged, and effects all the models within 2. but seeing as quite a lot of models have a Melee range of 2, wouldent that mean that the friendly mimic would already be engaged wiith any model within 2(who has a ML range of 2)? - or would you first be considered engaged if the enemy model actually attacks you? One of the friendly Mimics in my crew are going to be the Doppelganger, but she has the ability called "Which One is Real?!", which states that you never flip a card for her, when you randomly determin a target... so if I got an enemy within 2, and none of my own models within range, would that make her more or less immune to SH attacks and basically make all of the enemies SH attacks hit himself? Furthermore, neither of the abilities have the word "other" in it, would that mean that the Mimic with this upgrade, would always be able to use this upgrade on himself aswell?

Every time someone makes a crew list, everyone always comment on how it is wrong to make a list before you see the schemes, as certain models would be better for certain schemes. So I kinda thought all those people "complaining" about pre-list building would be able to share some of their experience with these models... but no one seems to want to share out of their knowledge?

"It says heal all damage "on this model". Not heal all damage taken and previously suffered. Someone could still argue the left over damage because its not on the model now is it?" ...I am going to assume that you are simply trying to prove a point, and dont really believe in this kind of logic yourself, because this is just extremely... "silly"... And can an admin please lock this thread before someone will argue that you can smash your opponents models with a baseball bat, as it does not specifically state anywhere in the rules that you CANT do it >>

I think it is safe to say that this "problem" have been solved, and that the thread can be closed to avoid any further needless discussion

I completely agree, it is the only thing I can still have a hard time understanding during a game, to an extend where I would rather just avoid hills etc as much as possible :/

I just took my book out and read everything on page 47... and I have no idea where you read that you can target a buried model? -or are you saying that the fact that it does not specifically states that you -can not- target a buried model... means that you can? O_o

Without having the rulebook with me right now, I am pretty sure you are not able to target a model that is buried, unless a skill specifically states it... which this one does not

I mostly see this as a case of overanalyzing a rule, instead of just looking at it in a more simple and logical way, just like I was trying to point out in my last post... which ironically seems people are ignoring while continuing the debate