Stepfan

Oi, ugly green thing! Why do you always run off with my dear Molly's makeup bag? Do you even know how long it take to get her dressed up for an outing?

Yeah that's more what I was looking for EnternalVoid. :-) And I agree, I told him he should pick up Toshiro and Punk Zombies when Toshiro comes out(also told him to consider adding Yin, just to get all the ancestors). But sadly Toshiro isn't out yet. Anyone played him with the Ten Thunder options?

The easiest way I've thought of it is in terms of Additional Requirements(ARs). If you can't pay the AR of a spell it fails, and since a Punk Zombie cannot pay the 1-3 wounds the spell fails. Like trying to Magical Extension Rancid Transplant with McMourning's Totem fails as the totem has no body parts. I've encounted this one before, and it always irks me. And to be honest Punk Zombies are good enough without it anyways. :-)

So a local player was going to start Ten Thunders with Misaki, but the box is currently sold out. He asked me(as I was the one who showed him how to play as the Henchman was busy), what he should pick up to have a comfortable start playing Yan Lo. I suggested box set, Izamu, and the Onryo, but I'm a Resser/Arcanist at heart and not a Ten Thunders player. So I figured I would ask for him what you guys would suggest from the currently released models what to pick up to have a decent Yan Lo crew(He owns Yamaziko and supposedly has a Ten Thunders box our LGS will order when it comes back in stock).

Actually if you can get call belle off on Molly it solves some of my issues with trying to use her as the supporting spellslinger she is(really want to cast twice and sometimes need to be in position). This requires testing, I did just get my Seamus box... well my molly box part 2 painted up.

Well let me try. I run Molly a lot, as a Henchwoman and as a Master. As a master, I find she excels at the non combat strategies using creative crooligan chenanigans(I always take 3 crooligans if I'm bothering wiht Molly). She does want to activate first, to throw around extra walks, defense/attack debuffs, and some of her great 0's. It also let's her get into position for some of her aura's to properly set off. I also think she almost demands having the Rouge Necromancy, though as it's her only real combat option(NOTE: I have not yet used Yin, might change my strategies, but waiting for the model). Overall, I find she can work as a Master, and have managed a few glorious moments. However, her stronger element is helping other Master's. I've used her most extensively with McMourning, and have found her fantastic every time. I usually end up adding a few McMourning stuff to my Molly crew, having discoverd IMHO that McMourning doesn't really care that much about what else is in the crew, whereas Molly does. So if I have an objective strategy I'll go crooligans, though I will not take them unless I have a need to get at objectives. Molly boosts one of my favourite minions Sebastian into threating speed(He always seems so slow without Imbue Vigour), and boosting McMourning's walk is amazing. Her debuffs also stack nicely with McMourning, as the Good Doctor is a melee monster, so giving his targets double negative to defense can be a great boon, and I have saved him multiple times by giving the most nasty threat a double minus to attack flips(though that does sometimes require burning a stone). Having an increased summoning threat can be great, as McMourning is limited in what he can summon, as is Molly and there is no crossover. McMourning can also summon the Rouge Necromancy which Molly can do great things(Double Walk with Aura+Imbue Vigour is an eighteen inch move that you can then make 2 fangs strikes at target's 1" away is not bad at all). Only tried her once with Seamus, and haven't with any others. Am tempted to try her out a bit with Kirai, though mostly just to experiment. Also would love a Brawl with Seamus+McMourning and Molly. Is on my list of testing as I try to get my head around my favourite model. Honestly I'm in the middle of updatign a few Pull My Finger articles(namely Molly/Crooligans), but want to get it all written out right before I put it up there.

Well since I just got a new computer and had to go back through this thread and regrab all the doodles, I figured I'd bump the thread and say how awesome these are Tuesday.

Lol, that seems to be the only time I ever use her myself. I almost feel like I should go edit the Molly pullmyfinger again and remove the talk about whether or not to take the Rogue Necromancy or Madame Sybelle.... Molly needs something to hit stuff(at least I've found her leading a crew to have only that model for hurting things), and Sybelle doesn't do enough damage to bother with. But as a summon into combat with an annoying model she can hold it there for a little bit.

Oh? Why do you find deliver a message to be broken? Honestly curious here haven't had an issue with it myself. Although spirit without a trigger is nice, and so is three points cheaper. Hadn't noticed Hard to Kill, that is a good bump to a three wound model. Not certain how well it combo's with spirit as well, but it certainly can't hurt. However, I don't mean to dispute that Night Terrors are better objective grabbers, while both can move 18 inches or so(although depending on how you can angle that push on the Terrors they can get a bit further), but the Crooligans need Molly within 4" when the first one moves a 7+:masks and an 8+ with no suit. (Molly activates and grants Imbue Vigor on Crooligan within 4"; Crooligan casts The Mists and then takes a Wk action of 11"(4[base Wk]+3[imbue Vigor]+2[Molly]+2[The Mist]; Second Crooligan activates, Curiosity Calls, and Wks.), but that took three activations and your second crooligan is now stuck in the open and has used all his action points. Crooligans can go fast, but they are not Night Terrors. Now if Curiosity Calls was a (0) we'd have a debate. Normally I'd have two hanging out by themselves, and a third next to Molly to slingshot up if they need support. That one uses the mist slingshot Wk of 11 to put the other two in The Mist, they could then dart out, interact, and Always on the Move back into The Mist. My preference for crooligans has more to do with finding them versatile. I think they're decently punchy, pretty survivable, and fast. They are not the best at these things, but they are also not the worst, and I am now apparently on a campaign in support of them lol(completely accidently).

So the same thing that the Crooligans do as well? I typically run the three of them as a pack, they work better that way. Plus throw up the mist on the treasure carrier and the other's can warp to his aid(and with df7 he can usually disengage). These are my experiences so far at least, i did just try out Night Terrors, and while they are amazing I think for most things I prefer the Crooligans. However deliver a message I think they just became my go to choice. Possibly also with plant evidence/destroy the evidence, but haven't tried them out with that yet. In my experiments, Crooligans without Molly have proven to be lacking potential not the least of which is the lose of one of their number, though I still don't find them crap.

Oh I know. I don't use that push, I use them to hold the Treasure Counter as I've found them incredibly durable. I do hope I've been playing that correct that they can choose not to activate that push. I however have yet to use Night Terrors, I play lots with Molly, but I'm not sure they'd be better. I have a hard enough time keeping the Crooligan's safe and they are certainly more durable. And the speed boost for Night Terrors is also a push yes?

Lol, well Crooligans, in my mind are not pure objective grabbers. I use them to do so yes, but they aren't as fast at it as Night Terrors are. I find them more durable and more capable of throwing a punch. I do think they benefit more from Molly's abilities then Night Terrors, but I'm still not terribly used to running her with people still so that's tentative. I've repeatedly used them to grab objectives, but the big thing for me is not just getting it, it's getting out afterwards. For things like the treasure counters or shared line in the sand Crooligans are one of the harder things to knock of objectives. DF7 Spirits with 5 Wounds is nasty, I've had them fight off Lilith(although they've only killed her once) several times. I find their triggers great and since the crews I use don't have any other use for tomes they aren't resource hogs either. I am still working on that pullmyfinger, but was going to do it all at once and put it up here as a thread. Plus was trying them out in non-Molly lead crews. I've had a streak of loses lately, but it seems the only reliable units are the Crooligans so far. They do what I want them to, it's McMourning that keeps on failing to deliver(so many black jokers and aces it's been ridiculous).

Unfortunatly yes, sort of the one negative of the trigger. However I usually find it worth it, though I've yet to run them with Nicodem as said above. Although further Crooligan talk should probably be in a different thread.

Well I'm currently working on a pullmyfinger entry for them so sure. :-) Note I've yet to use them with another leader other than Molly. I intend to start soon, having found them as useful as I have. I've found, especially for objective games, they can move in and interact to escape. Then if you need to guard the area, throw up the mist(which has no suit requirement yay!) and you have a Df 7 model that assuming you can keep a Mask around can turn into a spirit with 5 wounds. If you feel they're being threatened beyond their ability to live and you need them still, then either drag in another crooligan to attack(although only if you have a decent Tome as they need it to be really good at combat a 2/3/4 damage flip with Poison 1 is pretty good, you can one shot a few things with that moderate/severe), or use Return to Sender to pull them out of there entirely. I do think you need three, but again still working out the amount required. What they don't do is run off alone and deal with enemy threats. They work better in tandem, I've yet to get a solitary one to work out as well as I wanted(though it seems MudgeBlack has). They also can't just go murder enemy models, they are more defensive in nature. But again Df7 Spirits with 5 wounds is at least in my experience a very solid defensive model, and I don't seem to need low masks for anything else(you want a usually but since if you could cheat high you wouldn't need the mask necessarily as then you didn't take damage a low mask is a decent bet). A fun trick though since they're spirits till the Resolve Effects step if you/your opponent attack one and then you get the trigger off they can go through wall/terrain and pull the other Crooligans with them). As a last thought I usually cast "The Mist" then Wk figuring that a walk of 6 and Df7 is better then a Wk of 8. (As it does say that the caster is effected by The Mist on the card). And since most Resseructionist things seem to need Crows more than anything else, I usually have an 8-10 in my hand that's not a useful suit. Of course I probably wouldn't cheat in a Severe unless it was completely necessary, but I think that weighing when to use cards is part of the game.

Actually looking over your blog, it seems like we've mentioned most of the same things, and I at least don't see a need to edit strictly for writing style. Though if you could provide more on using her with people that's an area I've only done once(with Seamus). Most of my experience is having her as a master. Although the Offensive section could use a bit on Terrible Secret. Annoyed I forgot that one. However, it looks like we(the Rezzers in general) have the basic rules up, and it's mostly tricks and tactics that are missing, especially considering each strategy(if anyone has experience with Molly in Slaughter they should do it, I always pay to reflip it), as opposed to just stating all her rules and spells in a different manner. Also #Molly2012? If I went to more tournaments I would so be in. Can't believe I missed that in the Malifools podcast, but I'm a bit behind.

Awesome.

I've been working on the Molly section and was thinking of adding to the Crooligan section(though they aren't on your list). We can do this.

I'm honestly tempted to say none. But the few times I've taken a Doxy it's only been the one. For all I know the second really makes them pop. However, I usually find I want two damage doers(Sybelle and Rouge Necromancy), two rotten belles, and three crooligans(I honestly find these guys fantastic so far), at 35ss. So finding the 5 for a Doxy is had, let alone 10 for two. Usually Molly's crew seems fast enough to not need the Doxies ability to move around models.

Molly is the most awesome. But Mcmourning is the reason I first became a Rezzer, so him. After all a genius, a scientist, and all under the guilds nose(heck they supply the materiel). I sometimes wish he and Nicodem had as strong of a theme as Seamus, but whatever.

Necrotic Machine because it looks awesome, and I love it when it stabs someone and they fall over(beautiful trigger). Although I usually end up blowing it up at some point with Philosophy of Uncertainty. Zombie Chihuahua is a close second followed by lost love.

True, arcanists are pretty varied(though they do seem to bleed together), but I still think that Ten Thunders could at least throw your opponent a bit of a loop. Not that they'll have no idea, but it's my current thoughts.

I actually think it might, at least partly. When you announce faction you get at least a vague idea of what your opponent is taking, even if you've never played them. Like there are some things that are just common among each faction, like resser corpse counter usage and guild being quite shooty. So you can plan to take those things into accord when deciding a list. Now some Masters/Henchmen do break from this mold a little bit, but none of them do it too extremely. However if your oppnenet says "Ten Thunders", you have very very little to go off of, Yan Lo and Misaki have far less in common then Seamus and McMourning for instance. In addition being able to grab things that would normally be out of faction and blend them together(like a little bit of resser raising with heavy arcanist construct support) could also be a major benefit though perhaps less of one. This is all just speculation of course.

Really quick on that, Rafkin summons one mindless zombie per corpse counter, so it'd be the same number. He uses 2 body part counters to summon one zombie, and you get 2 body part counters per corpse counter. Also I am so looking forward to Misaki, it's breaking my Ressurectionist tendencies.