naiatoc

Thanks dude!!! Being a former 40k player myself, I feel like I can tease them a little....

That is exactly right. Spot on. I play the Victorias and Kirai (obviously... just look at my sig). I would like to try the Victoria's Avatar... for no other reason than just to say I tried it. It fills no holes in my crew or my play style. Avatar Kirai seems moderately useful. It does present an interesting option. I like getting a soulstone using Ikyrio. I feel like it could take on melee masters. Something I usually struggle with. Very interesting point. Since I play only 1 Resurrectionist master, I guess I'm proof of this, huh!!! So you're saying I find Kirai's Avatar moderately appealing because I lack other masters from that faction???

Here is a variation of a typical list for me, both fast and flexible. Kirai Lost Love Seishin x5 Dead Rider Night Terror x4 4ss pool I rarely tailor my list much for specific factions or stategies, but I do a little. (In this case I dropped my standard Datsue-Ba for 2 more Night Terrors.) However, the mission objectives does dramatically effects how I play my crew. In the case of Reconnoiter I would probably try to get Kirai in close to get back Seishin as things start dying. That way I can keep re-summoning and maintain my high model count. The Night Terrors will be my main objective grabbers.

If they upgrade anyone it is obviously going to be Misaki. In book 1 they mentioned the Ten Thunder, now they have some basic troops. Clearly that is the next henchman. I also voted for Jack Daw. Not because I think he'll get an upgrade (or even needs one!) but because an Outcast, spirit crew would be pretty sweet! Lots of criminal's ghosts floating around.

Joss would make sense as a henchman... but so would Myranda. And I feel she should get the lovin' she deserves. She's an interesting character (her and Marcus for that matter). I want her game play to be more competitive.

I second this. You like him. You clearly want to play him. Go for it. No master is unbeatable, part of the fun of the game is learning how to beat difficult masters. (The same goes for opponents. Learning how to beat a formidable player is very rewarding.)

I have not used Bete Noir so I can't speak on that point. I find spirits have so much synergy with her that I rarely use anything else. The only other piece I've used so far has been the Dead Rider. However, I have played one game against Sonia. She was not really all that tough in my opinion. I knew my opponent was trying to manifest as soon as possible. So I went gunning for her! I managed to kill her at the cost of my own Dead Rider and a Shikome, but still won the game. The magical weapons and spells didn't hurt nearly as much as I thought they would. Actually, I have a bigger problem dealing with Lady Justice. She is a melee beast, and if she's backed by soulstones I don't have anything that can take her on. I sent a Shikome against her, only to have Lady Justice kill it on MY ACTIVATION!!!

Very true. Shikome fill this role nicely. However, I usually summon Shikome. (I hate starting with them.) I usually start with the Dead Rider and summon other spirits as needed. So my question is this: is Rogue Necromancy better than the Dead Rider?

While it is true that the lost love can turn pieces into spirits, it is a difficult spell to cast and one that I usually don't want to spend the resources on. If you are going to try it, make sure you get something that can really benefit from it, such as the Dead Rider. I want to eventually try out the Rogue Necromancy in a similar capacity. When selecting my crew I've found it best to take spirits that cannot be summoned. So the Hanged/ Insidious Madness combo you mentioned is a great choice to start the game with. (I haven't actually tried it yet, but it looks solid to me.) Other than spirits, the piece I sometimes use is the Dead Rider. Shikome. But I learned early on not to start the game with them, summon them. You have to select a prey at the start of the game, and they have to attack their prey. They can't attack anyone else until their prey is dead. So selecting a piece after deployment without knowing what you opponent is going to do can be difficult. Also, if your opponent is savvy he can keep the prey out of harm, and it can be very frustrating trying to get your shikome to it's target! I've been wondering this myself. I want to have Kirai's avatar handy. Her avatar profile gives her the attacks of Ikyrio but will allow me to use soulstones with it.

I think of Jack Daw as a fantastic support piece. However, Kirai isn't looking for more utility. That's her job! By the time I take 5 seishin and lost love, I find myself wanting to take something big and hard hitting... not more utility. While I do understand that I can summon damage dealers (like shikome), I also like starting with some muscle. I'm scarred to run a completely utility list and rely on summoning to supply all my serious damage dealing. Am I just worrying for nothing or is this what other people think? I feel the best place for Jack Daw and the Hanged are in a Pandora list. I think that would be a fun core group to try out and experiment with. But I digress. This topic is about Resurrectionists, not Neverborn. Also, I've heard people mention Von Shill and the librarian in a Kirai list before. I can see the librarian... somewhat. But how does Von Shill work out? I mean, is there any synergy with Kirai, or are you taking him just because he's freaking Von Shill?!

That's a really good idea. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds useful. (I have the same trouble with keeping her alive long enough to reabsorb.) Personally I don't think that is a waste of AP. I almost never summon more than one thing a turn anyway, especially if I'm planning on re-summoning Ikiryo.

How useful would Rogue Necromancy be with Kirai? On paper he sounds good. His damage output is great and he can hit hard, but is he worth the points? He can't be summoned, can't be healed, and lacks synergy with Kirai. Unless, of course, I turn him into a spirit, but that is unreliable. The card requirement turns me off to that plan.

A man after my own heart!!! Before the Dead Rider fig was released I was planning to do that... But I didn't get a chance to before they released the official fig and I ended up just getting the real thing. Long story short: I support your plan.

I think the reason those 3 (dreamer, pandora, hamelin) are hated so much is that they win so often. And it can be exceedingly difficult to beat them when they are played by an experienced player. I play Kirai. In my group there's a guy who HATES Kirai. He thinks she's overpowered. Then there's another guy who doesn't mind playing against her at all. He thinks she's decent but not overpowered. Guess who I have a hard time beating, and who I often win against?! It's nothing more than a matter of perspective. As others have said: wining is wining, and losing is losing! If they go into a game and feel like they stood a chance, then they feel good about the game (even they didn't win). But if they don't feel like they had a chance of wining, they won't have fun.

That's a pretty good combo... I'm going to have to remember it. But I've always had a problem getting Weigh Sins to work properly. I cast it and don't kill my target. Or, when a juicy target is near death and it's a perfect opportunity, I can't seem to get my Datsu-Ba in range (it's only a 6 inch range). Long story short, I think I've only ever summoned 1 Gaki from that spell in all the games I've played, despite several attempts.

As a Kirai player, I've found Lady Justice to be a bigger threat than Sonia. (However, Sonia's minions are better.) I've killed Sonia, but against Lady J and her ability to bounce my attacks back at me, I've never managed to kill her. Once, my Shikome attacked her and she killed me. If played properly she can tear through a lot of Kirai's stuff pretty easily. One of my biggest problems is going up against melee masters (Lady Justice and Lilith).

Well, I think this thread is about playing the Victoria's outside of their box set. With that said, I think playing them with the Friekorp box is a great idea. Pick up the Friekorp box and the two Victoria's. Right there you've got yourself some solid options.

I would shorten the list it a little more: Guild- Lady Justice Arcanist- Rasputina Ressurectionist- Seamus Neverborn- Lilith Outcast- Von Shill But this is also a clever idea. You can demo them as two separate crews, or mix and match and run them together when you play against someone who has a crew of their own.

Ronin and a Convict Gunslinger are supper important. At 25ss run: Victoria's Ronin x3 Convict Gunslinger and a 5ss pool The only minion from their box I use regularly is Taelor. She is a tank! I typically use her to anchor a line while my Roinin flank. The Victoria's are fast, but fragile. Use Taelor to soak damage and draw attention away from the Vickies.

There are plenty of times I have 2 Shikome on the field. I love these gals. But I leaned never to start with them. Only summon them!!! 1 pack of Gaki is enough, as others have already said. Night Terrors are good, but you may not need more than 1 pack (maybe get a second when you can). As for the Dead Rider. I actually really like this guy. He hits hard, he's mobile, resilient and one hell of a good distraction. He gets killed every game, but he does enough damage and soaks enough hits from my opponent that I've never wished I wasn't using him. Him and a Shikome make an excellent 1-2 punch.

I think this is a classic case of 'target priority'. Having not yet played Hamelin, I am more worried about what models I should focus on, as opposed to who I should include in my crew. Should I be targeting ratcatchers with my Ronin, or focusing on killing rats? Should I throw the Vickies up against Hamelin himself, or is that a big no-no? I would go into the game with one of my standard lists, but I need to know how to fight him.

Your Master selections for each Strategy is very appropriate. I also like the tentative lists you have for each point level. However, if you can swing 55ss for Hamelin in the last game, you might want to go that route instead of the Vicks. (This might be the fist time I've actually encouraged someone to play another master over the Vicks!!!) Also, I worry about First Blood. Depending on your opponent's crew that could be a great Scheme, or a really lousy one. Be mindful of who you're up against. Very true in the last 2 or 3 games. Not so true in the first 2. Any Schemes with end game conditions would be fine in the first 2 rounds.

If you're set on wanting some long range support then this is the way to do it. Make sure you post your results! I'm interested in hearing how it goes!

That's an interesting list. I might have to try something like myself. Here is my version. Victoria's Taelor Hamelin 4x Desperate Mercenaries Ronin That should leave me with 5ss.

I believe this is a very important topic to discuss. A bad control hand when playing Kirai can be devastating. However, I don't think things are too bleak. I've found a good hand has an 8 of Masks for In the Spirit World. Then either a 5 of Feathers or an 11+ for Evolve Spirit. I never cast both in the same turn (even when I have the right cards). I try to cast Evolve Spirit first turn to summon a Shikome, then Summon Ikyrio or more Evolve Spirits later on as the hand and pace of the game dictates. This limits my options somewhat. I don't always get to summon what I want when I want it, but I play the turn based off my hand. ie I'll be more defensive if I don't have the mask, or more aggressive if I can heal back up to full health on her. Only the 8 of Masks has ever been a serious problem for me. I can use a soulstone on it if needed. However, sometimes that still doesn't get the spell off and then I'm in real trouble. More than once I've had the cards for summoning something, but lacked the wounds necessary.