WUWU

I agree this makes sense, but where is it mentioned in the rule books or errata? Also, the question was brought up in this thread in regards to the Performer using Mesmerize without LoS

Figured I should bring this to everyones attention: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?p=207170&posted=1#post207170 Apparently, abilities do require line of sight... ???

I appreciate this ruling, and it makes much more sense, but is this something you are making a judgement call on right now, or is there something in the books or errata you are referencing? Seems this is contradictory to the (vague) ruling made here: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14973 I haven't seen anything that suggests abilities require LoS, whether they say "target" or not, in the books or errata.

Unless something has changed recently, as far as I'm aware, you don't actually need LOS for abilities if it doesn't specifically say LOS is required. So Incite/Pacify/Gamble Your Life could all be used from behind walls or around cover

I was just going to chime in and say spamming the Stolen is probably much more effective against Colette, so taking that same list you have for Pandora would be good, and depending on the strategy, I might even drop Nix for four rats (two for each catcher) to chase after objectives. There's really not much concern over her crew killing Hamelin, so dropping Nix could be a reasonable gamble. Camping in the back against that Lilith list might not even be necessary, it only has four scoring models (with WP 4, 5, 6, 6, not that impressive), I'd probably park Hamelin in the middle of the board threatening Understand

Nope, in RP it says insignificant cannot interact with a corner. I feel like all Strats and Schemes have been been changed to no allow insignificants to interact, but don't quote me on this.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely enjoy crushing, but it's the most satisfying when I have an equal chance of being crushed.

Just a fyi, also: I had suggested Sand take Plague on Malifaux, and he agreed, so even if we were playing it correctly I wouldn't have screwed him over by killing my own model. That'd be low. I'm sure he would have taken another scheme instead, and the game could have unfolded a little differently.

Yeah, that's a good point Tadaka. Especially since not everyone has access to all the three pointers. I don't think I'll be taking Power Ritual much with Colette anymore, just for that reason. It might be good to drop that one down to a standard 2 vp

Oh. Yep. Just reread the scheme, I thought it said "every enemy model you killed" Worthless scheme. Hamelin needs to find another three pointer to keep up then

Everything was announced. Hamelin's scheme scores 3 vp as well. Kind of scary when you consider there is no number requirement on it. and thanks. it was a good game. Sandwich and I are pretty dedicated to cracking the Hamelin code right now.

Just got home from our session. Sandwich and Hamelin vs. my Colette crew. We ended up just calling it a draw after turn four when we both had max VP. The strategy was Shared Plant Evidence, which was no problem for either crew, and I took the Bodyguard scheme and just barely managed to get Power Ritual for three VP. Sand had Plague on Malifaux (which, I think, we both kind of realized during the game how easy it is for Hamelin to score three vp with this. He killed exactly one Dove the whole game, which was, of course, replaced with a rat), and he also took Stake a Claim (Hamelin would not have been moved from the terrain feature) The game went down pretty much how I expected...non interactive. The best option against his crew is to avoid conflict and rush objectives as fast as possible, hoping that he doesn't make everyone insignificant in the process. That's not too hard with Colette's crew, but a slower master will have trouble, for sure. One by one my crew fell to Understand the Soulless, with only Colette remaining I flipped a lucky trigger and managed to Blinding Flash into range of my last corner and hit it on my reactivate, at the end of the third turn to force the draw. A few notes on the game: My crew killed two rats and two soulless all game. His killed only one Dove. Nothing else was wounded. Coryphee Duet was the first to fall to Understand. That hurt. I could have maxed my VP on turn two otherwise. I'm thinking it's better to keep them separate against Hamelin. Fate is Meaningless is good. Really good. If Hamelin wants to do something, he will do it. Not cheating against Hamelin is.... less than optimal. Colette is probably a top tier master, right up there with Hamelin, but he changes the game dynamic more than anyone else. Certain schemes and strategies have no chance against him. Overall, it was a really fun game, despite the lack of action, because the whole time it felt like one misstep would hand you a loss. My final opinion? He's nearly broken, but I don't really mind playing against him. He should undergo some changes, though (Bully mostly)

Remove Sorrows from Pandora first. It seems to me that a lot of people on the board aren't taking them anymore, so even better. Kill or Sac rats to get more activations/wait for Pandora to get in near range. Blow up a Stolen to activate Useless Toy triggering No Humanity, and cast Understand the Soulless on Pandora. Profit. Easier said than done, sure, but this wont be uncommon. I picture the Pandora/Hamelin matchup decided on who can get the jump on the other master, to either Mental Anguish or Understand the Soulless. Pandora has the maneuverability and Hamelin has the activations to turtle up and wait for his shot. Pretty close call, but I think the Neverborn might have a slight advantage here. I haven't seen a ruling for it, but I believe RAW Hamelin would get +2 Twist from Useless Toy against Expose Fears and +2 Twist for whatever attack he is making against her. Pretty decent.

I'm still a newb myself, but since I've been reading up so much on Malifaux lately I can probably help you out a bit. -I've got mixed thoughts on the rulebook issue. They are both really nice quality items, fun to read for the fluff and the model rules, and they have great art. I ended up buying them both or these reasons. But the presentation of the rules is lacking somewhat, a lot of the game and model rules have changed or been clarified with errata since the printing. If you don't mind missing out on fluff wait for the new rulebook, and then if you are really into the game consider picking up Rising Power and the main rule boo, in that order, for story and model overview. -You wont need more than 10 or so counters per person for soulstones. I've been using a couple of dice. You'll probably want counters for Blasts and corpse/scrap counters. They are 50mm and 30mm, respectively, so you can always just use extra bases. -About half the board covered in terrain is good. You can do more or less, but more is probably better, and if it looks cool go for it. One thing to keep in mind, Malifaux encounters take place indoors and outdoors, in a wide range of settings. So the more variety of terrain you have the better.

Thanks for the tips Dolomyte. After rereading some strategies on the forum last night, I'm actually fairly confident in this match up, as there are some tactics I didn't fully appreciate with Pandora (okay, I didn't realize Mental Anguish was that broken). I guess a stronger case could be made that Pandora is too powerful, haha. Well, hopefully we can get some more play testing in with Hamelin on Thursday and let you guys know how it turns out.

You're right about this. My main mistake was poor deployment for the strategy, and the Stitched Together were some of my last models to activate. There were very few options for them at this point, but in defense, the rats that spawned did nothing in return. I do agree with you here to an extent, but at the same time, when you aren't cheating, you also aren't maximizing your crews effectiveness. So while you are hampering Hamelin, you are in turn hindering yourself. Nearly a wash. Though, focusing and channeling is a good idea where applicable, I'll exploit that next time around Divide and conquer I can see being effective, but not so much the focus fire. The plague crew lends its self to a brick style formation like you are talking about, and firing at range doesn't seem to nullify the recursive advantage. While you are blasting away, you aren't necessarily capturing VPs, while their crew is regenerating. Maybe a full on family alpha strike could take out the lynch pins, I'm not entirely sure. It seems to me that a lot of the crews posted on the forums here have at least a few insignificant models, but that could just be my bias as I'm partial to a lot of the undead/construct type lists. Anyway though, I appreciate your post, I'm hoping to get some solid tactics down for playing with and against Hamelin, as he's such an awesome character.

Yes, I'm inexperienced with Malifaux, but I've also been playing war games and CCGs for nearly 15 years, so I'm not an idiot when it comes to game mechanics. Now, Sand made a few statements regarding Hamelins balance and detractors respond with "Give me details", when details are given, the responses are in broad generalizations. Sound analysis doesn't work that way. Just because you say Hamelin isn't over powered doesn't make it so; try and at least give some play examples, for the benefit of the whole community. Since Pandora is my main master at the moment (Colette soon to follow, so I may comment on that in the future), I'm curious on what tactics you are employing to "wipe out a decent hamelin player in one round"? What happens if Pandora becomes insignificant? From a relatively easy CC the main power behind your crew can be made irrelevant (and don't forget Hamelin has higher WP than Pandora), and Hamelins crew will most certainly outnumber yours, and is more mobile -with the exception of Pandora herself- in regards to achieving schemes and strategies. Facts have been presented for Hamelin being too powerful, namely, higher model/activation count, all models are scoring models, nearly unkillable, and the ability to make your models irrelevant in the encounter. How specifically do you counter those advantages?

I was the Pandora player in Sand's example. It was certainly a somewhat sloppy game, as I'm still really new to Malifaux, and it gets tedious shuffling through the RP book to double check all of Hamelins rules, but overall I think there are some valid points on both sides of the argument. It seems more than anything that playing with/against Hamelin can really change the dynamic of certain strategies. His crews ability to toss around insignificant, combined with Bully... I can see this really creating some non-interactive playing experiences. If anything needs to be addressed it's Bully and Understand the Soulless. The spell is really under costed when it basically says, "You can't score VP or target Hamelin for the rest of the game". Perhaps changing Bully to only Ht 1 models, or Understand the Soulless to non-master models would balance things out. With that said though, and after reviewing some of the schemes, there are some definite no-brainers when up against his crew. As a Neverborn player, Kidnap immediately jumped out to me as an automatic 2 VP. Hamelin and his crews overall lack of hitting power makes bodyguard a great choice (really, as a new player, it seems like one of the best schemes to take the majority of the time). Power Ritual could be good, as it coincides with avoiding the Plague crew. Sabotage as well, though you might not want to announce it. Gather soul stones since it's likely they wont have a good cache. First Blood. ... pretty much anything that doesn't rely on having more models or counters is a safe bet. I think with a bit better technical writing (and I hate to say it, because I love the game, but this is really Wyrds weak point), Hamelin could be balanced fairly easy

The Game Matrix is in the South Tacoma/Lakewood area, at 84th and S. Tacoma Way, basically right off 512. I'd say most of the clientele are Fort Lewis guys, surprised you missed it. Definitely stop by next time you are in town.

Hey, this is Kyle. You and your brother taught me to play the other Friday. I ended up grabbing the rulebook and some models (more coming in the mail as well), but yesterday I was busy. My schedule is hectic at the moment, and Fridays aren't really the best for me anyway, but I'll try to make it down again for sure. It was a fun time, and I like the game quite a bit.