Turbodog

"in the past was just before the FAQ/Erratas ... April maybe?" Looking more closely, I think GrayFox has it. The "after damaging" effects occur in step 6 of the updated document.

The hanged have a ranged attack called "Condemned Whisper". On their card is the ability: Weapon, Condemned Whisper: Models damaged by this weapon must win a WP -> 11 Duel or fall back. I just need to clarify a few things to make sure I know how this works: 1) I'm assuming this is a "simple WP duel", but not a morale duel. As such, undead and constructs (and others) that normally don't take morale duels still take this. 2) I'm assuming this is a "simple WP duel", but not a morale duel. As such, Sue's ability which buffs WP vs. OPPOSED WP duels does not affect this. 3) I think that the target of the attack that generates this duel is a defender, so Immune to Influence which allows you to ignore WP duels as a defender would fully protect against this. 4) I'm assuming this is a "simple WP duel", but not a morale duel. As such, smell fear would not activate off this and cause the model to be charged by the hanged, since smell fear only kicks in when the model fails a morale duel. Okay, I think that will do it. So do I have these four ideas correct (before I charge into using this model)?

Turbodog's Response: "Huh?" Peacekeeper v2 card: Toss: "After damaging defender with a paired mechanical claws strike, push...." blah blah blah Drag: "After damaging defender with a chain spear strike, push..."blah blah blah I only see apples here. And as such, still think that (contrary to logic) "after damaging" must occur after the entire damage resolution process.

In the past, I asked a similar question regarding a peacekeeper hitting a model in melee with the toss trigger. I was told by a rules marshall that the model instantly dropped its counter there and the toss trigger did not occur. The wording "after damaging" seemed to be applied as "after doing the entire damage resolution process". Therefore the model is removed prior to the "after damaging" timing. So, in essence, I couldn't control where counters were showing up with an "after damaging" trigger.

Hoffman + Guardian...seems like a no-brainer. But with the recent changes to Guardian making his stalwart ability an aura, he now has two tricks (stalwart and disrupt magic) that just don't work around Hoffman. And keeping him out of Hoffman's 3" dampening bubble so they do work means that he's not protecting Hoffman. Hoffman and Guardian seem now like an odd couple that are trying to help each other out and just can't. I'm not saying Guardian is totally bad or useless but what I'm wondering is... Is he still worth 7 points in a Hoffman list to you?

I've enjoyed "listening" to you both go back and forth on this. Just for my own clarification, I believe the concensus seems to be: 1) You can Ice Mirror both pulse and aura spells (whether it is Raspy or Silent One that does it). 2) The part b's of my questions are still a little in the air. My poor little witchling stalker doesn't know who to cast dispel on to make white out go away!

I keep peeking back...NOT seeing a lot of justification as to why Raspy and the Silent One CAN'T ice mirror this way. Which makes me think they can. And raises the questions I have for the part b of each scenario...

Ice Mirror: "When casting a spell, this model may draw LoS and range from a friendly model with Frozen Heart within 6". These spells receive -3 Ca. Spells with the <gun> icon may not be cast through a model in melee using Ice Mirror." Sooooooooo...... 1. Can Rasputina cast White Out through an ice gamin with Ice Mirror? If she does, does that mean that you measure like the gamin has the aura coming out of it? (3" around the gamin). 1b. If this is true, and a witchling stalker wants to Dispel the White Out effect, does it need to cast dispel on the gamin or Rasputina? 2. Likewise, can a Silent One ice mirror the spell Ice Wind off a nearby Gamin so that you measure the 2" pulse from the Gamin rather than the Silent One? 2b. Also, does the Gamin heal because it is considered "this model" from the spell description or is the original Silent One "this model" and so it heals?

A drowned with 1 wd remaining activates. It spends AP to walk and then elects to use it's ability to take 1 Wd and push. We ruled he immediately dies from the 1 Wd (no push movement happens). Then slow to die activates, interrupting his death. He uses the 1 action to walk. Slow to die is resolved and he actually dies at this new location. Which means he blows up - we mesure the pulse from here. Did we do that right? -Turbodog

Hrm. Interesting article! I'll label myself as "Johnny Vorthos with Spike - Nuts and Bolts". Heck I sound like a superhero and his sidekick robot. I'm picking this because I get into the world and like to create crews around an idea/goal/or mechanical synergism. I look specifically for interesting interactions between models, or simply "fluffy" ideas. When I play, I certainly consider it a test of my own ability and understanding of the game, irrespective of crew build...but it's making the crew "work" that determines if I have "won" or not in my mind. My least favorite games are "lockdown" games where my opponent or my card draw prevented me from feeling like my models were performing the way they should. My most frustrating games are when I feel like my models didn't perform due to my own poor decision making. My favorite games are when I make good decisions that allow my crew to perform as expected. This could mean achieving the strategies/schemes or simply helping create a "fluffy" matchup scenario. I also enjoy when I feel like I make my opponent pause and think during the game - forcing him to make a difficult decision.

Mr. Kittens, I agree 100% with your analysis in your last post. I also agree with most of the responses people have given to you. If you look in a vacuum, that is two basic models facing each other on the carpet in front of you, all your thoughts are valid. So that said, the "idea" of focusing an attack (or channeling a spell) is NOT that your model is becoming more accurate or better at what they do. As has been pointed out by others, the real value to focusing/channeling comes in based on specific situations that are set up...such as cover, or a special rule on a card, or game effect. There are several cases that cause your attack flip to take a minus. If this happens you can't cheat and don't have much control over hitting, your triggers, the damage totals...it will likely be an unfavorable matchup for you. If you focus, it's like you offset that penalty (bringing yourself back to your normal ability level - not improving it.) Now that plus offsets a single minus to hit and you can cheat to hit to provide you more control. *Note if you have a bad hand and can't really cheat anyway, then this isn't really going to help you much either. Also note that this is why "paired" is such a powerful ability. Paired will allow attacks that can still cheat in these negative circumstances without spending more AP. Focus has a second component, that you also get the + to damage flips after you hit. Again, this isn't really to improve the damage you do, it's to offset things that normally detract from your damage - especially if you desire to cheat. Think of this the same way as how I suggest to think about hitting above. So here's a list of guidelines for focusing/channeling that I use: When attacking a model with no negatives modifiers, don't focus! Attack more times instead. When I have cards to cheat: When attacking a model with negative(s) to hit When attacking a model with hard to wound or other negative(s) to damage When I don't have cards to cheat: Don't focus When I have another way to offset the negative like Paired weapon Special rule or weapon ability (Guild Guard pistols have + damage) When I can only make one attack anyway and don't have another use for the AP Like totems Magical Extensioning (Yes, I play that can be channeled) Like Seamus' big honkin' gun that only fires once anyway. As others have suggested, focusing and channeling is something to use at a specific time/place in the game to negate an enemy's advantage. Not really something to always do so that you feel like you are making your own models better. Hope this helps.

Situation: Lady Justice casts her spell and gives the Pale Rider (+1) Melee Expert. The Pale Rider does not have a melee weapon, but does have the Gunfighter ability for his ranged weapon, Final Moments. Can this Pale Rider actually use the +1 Melee Expert AP if he is in melee range of another model? Or is it not possible to use +1 Melee Expert if you don't have a specific melee attack listed on your card?

Welcome, Jswiers! Here's my analysis of your Lucius list. Please be warned, my Lucius is all theory-faux. I don't actually own the model yet. In your list you have a 7 point Guild Guard Captain and an 8 point Ryle. Most successful lists I've seen use one or the other of these models, but not both. They really fill a similar spot in terms of how most people use them in an army. So I think we may be able to drop one of them to get some points. What I see you missing is Guild Austringers. Austringers are terrific models that count as Guardsmen and as such, work great with Lucius. Especially a Lucius list that involves a Drill Sergeant. Austringers provide your list potential Companion-esque ability, Super Long Range and do not require line of sight to hit. Under the drill sergeant's aura and as potential targets for Lucius to issue orders to, they are a terrific add to your list. Also to note: Wardens will be a great model that is also a guardsman. Coming soon in July! So here's my advice. Drop Ryle. Add in 2 Guild Austringers at 5 points each. This means you actually field a 37 SS crew and Lucius will only have 2 SS to play with. If you really want him to start with his max of 4, then when electing schemes, choose to not take 1 of them and take 2 SS instead. But I believe you can play Lucius with 2 SS if you play conservatively with him (which Lucius really is set up for anyway). So the list: 37 SS crew for 35 SS scrap. Lucius starts with 2 SS. Lucius Drill Sergeant Guild Hound (x2) Guild Guard Captain Guild Guard (x3) Guild Austringers (x2) Tactics: Use the Drill Sergeant to set up the firing range and use Austringers to kill at a distance. Use Lucius to power the Austringers to kill more. Use the Guild Guard to set up the forward line. They have armor and can stop charges with their pistols. As always, use overwhelming guild firepower if things get too close to the guard line. When the line gets pressured into melee combat, use the guild guard captain. His purpose is to bolster morale (+WP flips) and be a counter-charge threat. Use the dogs similar to the Guild Guard Captain - as a counter charge threat or as fodder to "tie up" small models denying them the ability to interact or other such things. Use them to bury counters if necessary. Use them to finish off models at medium range. Otherwise keep them with Lucius for his use. Use Lucius to support this entire effort - issuing orders, moving models, etc. This army moves slowly, but steadily forward en-mass, covering a wide swath. Hope this is helpful to you. Please keep posting if you have further questions! Happy Hunting!

The Desperate Mercenary idea I find good for one Desperate Merc. I usually don't do 2. Also, in lists where you have a Witchling Handler, it's usually better to already have Witchlings out on the field immediately available - rather than waiting to come in from another source. Bottom line...I'd keep at least one of the existing Stalkers in your list and just change over one to a Desperate merc, netting +2 SS....if that. Nilus (I think) had a good post regarding using Desperate Mercs with Sonnia's Avatar. I believe he used the fact that turn 1 was almost always going to be her (0) Inferno - which will bring D. Mercs to exactly 1 wound at the end of the turn - priming them to become Stalkers the next turn. Of course an opponent wise to this can handily take down a Desperate Merc with just 1 Wd left if he or she is savvy to this plan and gets initiative. Come to think of it, I think he also used that same Inferno pulse to help "prime" Santiago to his rage state.

Restating in this thread that I think C. Hoffman's Dampening Ability needs a clarification/FAQ/Errata treatment. Specifically clarifying: 1. Does it essentially nullify the Guardian's aura abilities (Disrupt Magic and now Errata'd Stalwart) if the Guardian stays near Hoffman. 2. Does it create odd circumstances like: A gamin is in base to base with Hoffman and another construct. If Hoffman machine puppets the construct to kill the gamin, it explodes due to shatter and damages Hoffman's crew. If Hoffman links in to the construct (or overrides edict on it) then it activates immediately following him, strikes the same gamin and if it kills it, the gamin does NOT shatter because it's not Hoffman's activation. 3. Another odd circumstance: Hoffman and a construct are near (within 3" - but not in melee with) a stitched together and a wicked doll (slightly behind the stitched). The stitched has fog up. If it's the construct's activation, he has LoS to the wicked doll and can shoot it because the stitched is within 3" of Hoffman and the fog is shut down due to Dampening. But if it's Hoffman's activation (and every model is in the same place), Hoffman could not machine puppet the construct to shoot the exact same doll in the same way, because the fog aura is up creating a "more than 3" obscurring" (= blocked LoS) situation. I worry about the confusion the Dampening ability can cause.

That wording is why we chose to rule it on the fly the way we did. We assumed the - to the attack flip is a penalty (so Hunter ignored it), but that the +1 armor was not a penalty...it was more of a buff (?) for the defender. So that was our reasoning why Hunter didn't ignore the armor part of hard cover. Would love to hear an official interpretation though. Not sure what the intent was when Hunter was created by the developers.

Re: Cover and Hunter Situation: Model is standing around the corner of a statue. It is ruled to have Hard Cover. A model with Hunter shoots at it. We were pretty sure that the Hunter did not have a - on his attack flip due to the cover. And played it that way. We were not sure if the model in cover still got to claim Armor +1 from the statue once he was hit. We ruled on the fly he could, but should Hunter also deny this?

Before he makes the machine puppet attack, have Hoffman assimilate Ambush from a nearby Hunter (if attacking before the model activates) or Pursuit from a Warden (if attacking after the model has activated) so that he will have plus to attack and damage for this cb 6 (ram) critical strike bash.

If a model with companion X is summoned during X's turn, can the summoned model take part in the companion chain? e.g. If Ramos summons an electrical creation, can it go immediately after him before the opponent activates? e.g. 2 - Abuela Ortega uses shotgun wedding to grant a model family and companion family. Can it immediately activate after her because it received companion during her activation?

This is a simple one for Wyrd to answer. V2 card for both Ice Gamin and Ice Golem have a defensive trigger requiring 1 tome (ends attacks after this model is hit). Both also have the Df stat colored on the card...this usually indicates that the model has the tome needed for the trigger as part of the stat. But the stats are blank - meaning number only and no suit included. Seems to me, considering model cost and how the crew works, that they are supposed to have that tome as part of defense. But which is correct? Is the colored stat correct and it's a misprint - they should have the tome included. Or is the colored stat wrong because it shouldn't be colored...

As I'm sure you know, guild has one of the best minion cross over in the game. That is to say, that any master can work with just about any minion in the faction. As a case in point, I just played a 25 SS game that included: Perdita Nino Sam Hopkins 2x Witchling Stalkers That was my "all my models have Hunter and Scout" gunline. (Perdita doesn't have hunter and scout...but she didn't need to with her high movement and fast.) I did exceedingly well with this list considering I went up vs. a slow arcanist army. So here's some non-family guild model random thought! (is that enough adjectives?) Witchlings - always good, everyone needs to cast spells and they give you magic melee options. Death Marshalls - more built in critical strike and more defensive than most Ortegas (and more competant in melee than most Ortegas) Now on to things to really take advantage of: Guardian - Imagine your Ortegas with armor. Imagine protecting Santiago so he can easily stay wounded (and angry) but not be close to death. Ryle - Puts out tons of 1 point shots at good range (12"). Able to use his 0" push easily with all those alive Ortegas around. Not a great choice with Perdita if you like to use her Obey spell (he is immune to it). Judge - Many have liked him in a protector role with the Ortegas where he can deal in melee with things that show up, but still have some range. Similar to how you might use that executioner. Watcher - Takes away cover. Can eliminate terrifying. Can eliminate pitiful/harmless. All at huge range. Also a cheap significant minion with terrific range and movement. A great option for Ortegas. Mercenary - Convict Gunsmith...Has a nice way to hand out paralyze. Like Perdita has faster'n'you but with different suit trigger. Paired pistols is always nice. Good model, even at +1 SS cost due to being mercenary. Pale Rider - Expensive...but excellent mobility (like Perdita) to bring a little more damage easily to an area. Also able (like Perdita) to move like mad to grab objectives late game. I'm painting mine up now to try, but I giggle at the amount of harassment I can generate with a move-shoot-move Perdita and a mounted fusilade Pale Rider tandem. I'm sure more people have more ideas...enjoy!

Don't look at the Rising Powers book... Hunter is on a 50 mm base. Warden is a 40 mm base. (Ryle is also on a 40 mm base for guild - opposed to what the bood says - so you could proxy with that for now...)

I also like to "pull" Hoffman into range for "free" on something fast like his Peacekeeper or Mechanical Rider and then activate Hoffman and use his AP to deliver. It's the Hoffman Pony Express! "message for you, sir!"

On my card Maintain Machines, his "ignore" ability, says "OTHER friendly constructs". So I assume he can't use it on himself.

Okay, just realised that with the change to Stalwart on the Guardian making it an Aura, Hoffman's dampening ability gets in the way. Dampening: No <blast marker> may be placed, and no <aura> or <pulse> effects may originate, within 3" of this model, except during this model's activation. So if a guardian is with Hoffman, it seems he can't use his (0) Disrupt Magic due to it being an aura. And NOW he can't use his (0) Stalwart due to it being changed to an aura. Of note, dampening also causes other problems the way it is worded. Like if I use a peacekeeper next to Hoffman to kill an ice gamin, it doesn't explode. But if I machine puppet the same peacekeeper to kill the same gamin (on Hoffman's turn) it does explode. Also odd that enemy "fog" effects near Hoffman, which are shut down for the rest of the turn, suddenly pop up and potentially block his own lines of sight during Hoffman's activation. I know it had to say "except during this model's activation" because Hoffman has a <pulse> spell. IMO, Dampening needs to be reworked/reworded. Especially in light of the guardian change of wording for Stalwart. -Turbodog