Necromorph

Yeah, with all my ressers I've taken a very limited approach to summoning. Mcm is the only one I still summon with, and that's maybe 1-2 times a game if I need to. Nothing ruins your day like being activated out and having a rogue necromancy dropped in the middle of your crew, haha.

Yeah I'm about to pick up Nico, and running a summon list seems to be more of a pain than it's worth. I'll summon stuff if my troops die, until then spamming decay, rigor mortis and bolster seem like much better uses for AP.

Yeah I've used her a couple times already....she's pretty brutal, and she can still kill pretty well too...she just has a different approach now.

Yeah cheap minions, especially her death marshals are great. Their crap defense means many enemies will be hard pressed to hit them if you have crows up. I'd keep at least 1-2 survivable models so that she can do spell dg off of them and df trigger push to get nasty stuff away from her, as she really doesn't get any less squishy in her avatar form.

Thanks man, you're right about that last line. I just took the 2nd face out, but I might have to add toward in there or something cuz it still feels odd to me but w/e haha.

The arcane effigy will be useful with hamelin if he's trying to manifest his avatar. The outcast one is probably better than a Wretch, but costs twice as much, the same could probably be said for.the guild effigy as well.

Ideally, she'll be manifesting near the enemy. She has a push that moves her 6" and gives her a ++ to all duels with the model she pushed towards, definitely nasty. Once she manifests, I would make of priority to bury their meanest model with aetheric shackles, and do your best to keep it buried. After that its really about choosing which aspect you want each turn. If your crew is in the thick of it vs a high cb crew keep crows up, if you're in a position to really hurt your enemy, pop rams that turn. After that its pretty much just keep pushing to enemies and beating their faces with true lady j style. Also, if something strong is threatening her in melee, don't underestimate her df trigger, it may not be riposte, but you can push the enemy into another friendly model to tie it up while you recover. This also leads to her even the odds ability that deals dg to an engaged enemy based on how many wd the friendly engaged model has taken. Von schill or.other such resilient models are key here. Imagine von schill at his slow to die mark, staying alive with a stone or two, and than hitting the model beating on him for 9 dg....ugh.

To add on to ratty's post, I just 8-0'd 2 people without summoning anything other than Ikiryo, haha.

Exactly. You never know what you're really facing. So saying, "Take x, y, and z against such and such master," is really useless. Sure if you play with the people enough to know what they usually run you can do it, but in any kind of league or torunament, you probably won't know what you're going up against until you deploy.

Agree 100% with Math's post on p.3. Really? We're gonna say that these issues with Neverborn are fine? No...nonono. Are they completely broken? Nope, but definitely not fine. I agree that alps being insig would be nice, and/or losing the - flip, but they can be dealt with...they're just annoying and the alp bomb is a ridiculously simple tactic that achieves far too much against many crews, imo. Stitched are really pretty annoying, but because their dg can be cheated and thus is resolved like normal dg flips...meh. Doesn't die is their main issue and needs to be changed so that the opposing player gets credit for the kill, imo. Hell...why did they get an uber form of slow to die? What would be wrong with a 5ss model having S2D instead of some crazy, manipulative reactivate ability? Lilitu...now really, there are people saying that double take is fine? Look, 90% of posts on these forums where people say "Oh, you have a problem with X model? Well just run Y model and you'll be fine," are complete bulls**t. You can't base the effect one model has on another in a "theoryfaux" scenario. You have to consider the rest of each player's list, terrain, strats, etc, etc, etc. Sure you could say the same for double take, but dt has been repeatedly proven to do very very ott things. Agree that it should be once per turn. Also, no we shouldn't change other triggers IMO. Trigger happy maybe, whirlwind, I don't think so. If double take was only a trigger that could be used in melee then I doubt people would have much of a problem with it. Kidnap is just....wow. The NB player literally just has to pick models....you don't even need to do anything against many crews. Against elite crews you just kill things like you normally do and get 2 extra vp for it. Yes, NB are very tricky, and manipulative, but IMO they shouldn't have another complete mindf**k aspect. Saying, "Oh, you're facing NB, just take elite models," is stupid. Again, theoryfaux at its finest. It's unrealistic to adjust your crew completely to counter a SCHEME that the opponent MIGHT take...thats nuts. Your strategy, consideration of their strat, with slight faction influence is how the crew selection should really work from what I've seen....yes there's a bit of guessing, but it's better than just handing 2vp to your opponents, or drastically altering your prefered playstyle for a whole faction (I said drastically, you're supposed to alter a little bit to adapt). As for book 3...no, I don't think the current power levels will really change much. Avatars add a new aspect to the game, but many of them are very situational, and there are not too many that look like they're going to drastically shift anything for certain crews/factions. As for minions, they did seem to bring the other factions up closer to the NB level....in book 2. Neverborn still got some great stuff, and I think they'll remain on top...it seems more like the power gap between 1st and 2nd is a little smaller, but the real jockeying for power positions is happening in the 2nd-5th slots.

Ohhhhhh yeah.

Really the whole anti resser thing seems to effect nico the most. All the book 2 masters kinda douche him because their units don't drop counters, lady j is his arch nemesis, and the exorcist just adds insult to injury. Don't get me wrong, the exorcist is good vs ressers in general, but it helps add general balance for.guild against all things non living. Thats undead, spirits, nightmares soulless, etc. Yeah it is a bit of a kick in the face for ressers which have a couple masters who already don't match up all that well against guild, but ressers got some nasty stuff in book 3 too.

Oh yeah....he can ONLY hire elite and guardsmen right? Well that blows....take lucius with lady j?

I guess I'll kind of add to the thread with a question of my own. I'm not trying to make an "all comers" list for my Non Kirai ressers, but I want a solid core. I have Mcm, and will probably have Nico soon, and I just wanted a core list that I would take for both and then adapt for each master / strat/ opponent, etc. I was thinking Punk Zombiesx2 Belle Crookedx2 Caninesx2 That works pretty well right? I've usually run Mcm rather dog heavy but I just don't like the way it plays and would much rather pull back on the dogs for some more of the traditional undead. I have a lot of other models to play around with. Jack, hanged, shikome, all of Kirai and Mcm's boxes, necropunks, dead rider, dead doxy, drowned, etc, etc, etc.

Ugh...I can't wait for those damn Crooligans. I mean, don't get me wrong, dog's are great objective cappers, but it's only because they just have sheer speed. If they can't get away fast enough, they're screwed. Crooligans on the other hand, were simply made to cap objectives...and they're damn good at it. They seem like a really good fit with any of the ressers, with or without molly, and they seem like they'll give Hamelin another nice option as well.

There's nothing stopping you, he just won't have any direct synergy with Lucius or the GGC. He's still pretty damn useful though...can't wait to throw him into my Dead Justice crew...although that does seem a bit contradictory.

Yeah, it does suck to know the outcome of games turn 3. Many of my friends, because we play together so often, will see the game won due to one initiative flip. Happens probably 1/2 of our games. Some crucial turn, usually 3 or 4, will come up and it's usually whoever wins initiative wins the game. Can be kinda depressing knowing you have to play 2-4 turns and still know you're going to lose, lol. I mean, that make for great games because we're so close...for the first couple of turns.

Hahaha, magic. Maybe now with Hamelin's avatar, I think stolen will be the last thing on their minds. I just need to squash this rumor quick so we don't get people 2 months from now going "OMG, Pale Rider with Hamelin is soooo awesome, durr dur dur."

Drinking usually helps me, that's why I usually do infinty tournaments drunk, ill finish top 3 and not remember half the games haha.

The breakdown probably runs like this. 5% I just flat out get outplayed. 10% I do something stupid that costs me the game. 10% I brought a stupid list, and it didn't work. 75% Horrible, horrible luck with the cards. Seems like a lot,but I really don't lose that much lol, maybe about 1/4 of my games.

She's only 5ss, and only has 5wd...she's not hard to kill. So if she can't keep something paralyzed or they manage to pass those duels, she's probably going down. That's likely why she can be summoned back so easily.

Hehehe....yeah that list is...hmmm...don't know how well that would work...but yeah it does shoot. Don't ruin my dreams!!!! I love my riders!!

No, he cannot be used with Hamelin. I got all giddy when I saw soulless and completely forgot that he can't hire constructs, my bad, I think I started that whole thing. Same with the person who tossed out that stolen were rare 3 back before hamelin was released...which is nowhere in the book or cards, and everyone got all fixated on it and thought it was a rule, hahaha. So don't be fooled, I was up for 76 out of 84 hours from my gencon trip and was having a sleep deprived moment of delirium... Pale Rider cannot be used with Hamelin. I have also updated my Guild Minions from book 3 post to reflect this as well to try and stop the insanity. P.S. Still sad that Hamelin can't use him...I'd like to be able to shoot things with something besides a flute.

Yep, haha. Replacing and summoning =/=.

I think the slop hauler and young cards are fine, nothing I remember seeing that was wrong.