bigstupidfighter

Perdita's a pretty simple Master, Francesco and Nino don't have anything tricksie to learn and none of her units are anything too convoluted as far as running them well goes. You aready have Ophelia though so you probably don't want her. Seamus is nice because he's difficult to kill, especailly for a newbie player, so whoever is using him will have good survivability, Belles are only 4ss, have 8 wounds and hard to Wound. The Arcanists are all easy to screw up, so are the Outcasts for the most part. I'd recommend Nicodem as well for a resser possibility, McMourning is a bit trickier as he and his boy Sebastian rely on Triggers which are easy to forget. This is just off the top of my head, without really looking at the book at everyhitng everyone has, so take it with a grain of salt. Lillith is pretty easy starting out as she only has a couple of tricks but they're very good ones.

Well there are a few threads out there about what various faction play like, I'm sure someone will link you one but in the meantime- Ressurrectionists as a whole tend to need a highish model count because they are summoners. Seamus is probably the least demanding his way as he can only summon Belles. Aside from his boxset, you'll probably want Canine Remains as they can be killed and their corpses used to make Belles, plus they're just damn useful in general. The Copycat Killer is a must because it's just too awesome. The upside to ressers being summoners is that they get great use of each other's models. Since McMourning can summon big smashy models, it's nice to have somthing lik Belles on hand for him to start with. Nicodem and Mortimer can both summon Belles, in fact for Mortimer Belles are one of the best options. So in summary, Ressers need a highish model count, but Seamus needs the least of anyone, and adding more Masters to your collection is as easy as picking up their box set because they get so much use out of one another's models. So yes, Seamus is probably a pretty good choice of first master.

Using Time to Prove Myself against Neverborn makes their damage line 4/5/7, more if they flip a ram. Seems really high for a 4ss model, but what the hell Death Marshals can do that with Finish the Job and no one's crying foul so it's probably ok. (0) 2nd cousin doesn't mke sense to me. Having Companion lets you activate after the currently activating model, so this doesn't do anything for you. Did you mean to have: (0) 2nd Cousin: Target freindly Family model gains Companion (family) That would allow them to activate one after the other like real Ortegas. Overall I really like the idea of this model, it's strong enough I would consider running some in a game, but not so powerful it makes me want them more than any of the Unique models. Changes I might make: Remove Stubborn Add Prejudice: This model gains +2 wp in duels where it is the defender against Neverborn and Gremlin models. Let Time to Prove Myself and Neverborn Hunter work against Gremlins as well. The reason I would do this is that effective wp8 is just way too high for a 4ss model, since wp tends to scale with ss cost. They hunt Gremlins as much as any other Neverborn, so their specail bonuses should apply to them too. Might even reduce their base wp to 5. I also like the idea of them having something similar to the Slop Hauler's Betcha I kin' Hit It, although I don't know what I'd have them give up for it.

The lost time is the downside to this list for sure, it's what I was trying to avoid with the Blood Shaman, although recently I've discovered it isn't working quite as well as I thought it would. He still lets the team catapult itself up 8" on the 2nd turn, which combined with the already fast Nephilim crew should get you where you need to be most of the time. As for the "growing" crew getting creamed on turn 1, this has been discussed before but my opinion is still that it shouldn't be a problem. I've only tried this growing tactic out once, but the time that I did was against Perdita and her Papa Bomb, supposedly a "problem crew" that could do serious damage on turn 1, and I smoked it. This new list is definitely a viable alternative to the one I originally posted, especailly now that the BBS's usefulness in the crew has been reduced. I'd still consider keeping the Shaman in for the added speed. So at 30ss, Whatsicle can field by the start of turn 2, with few or no wounds on your models: 2 Mature 2 Young 1 Nekima This is definitely the most damage output available of any idea so far, though it is admittedly even more AP intensive, and requires Lillith to use Blood from Stone. I think the sheer killing power of the "growing" team will outweigh the ability to be further up the field on turn 1 in most games, but you have to consider that Whatsicles team is spending much more on growing up his army than I was, so it's debateable which one of us has a truly more "efficient" list. I wrote my original one up the way I did specifically excluding Lillith as part of the strategy to make it Master-neutral. On an unrelated, it deserves mentioning that just growing a bunch of Young Nephilim is much less blood-counter intensive than growing Mature, and Nekima can help then to trigger Flay bringing their damage potentail way up. They're still more fragile but it's a legitimate option. I'm thinking of editing in an alternate version of the trick for this into the first post. I think the 30ss list would look simething like: Nekima 13ss 4x tots 12ss 2x Desperate Merc. 4ss Nekima does her buffs and sits tight, yes you have to waste her turn on this unfortuneately. Tot A kills a Merc, Grows and has to sit put as well. Tot B Grows, kills second Merc with Melee Expert, and moves up. Other tots Grow, move up. Lillith and Zoraida are both capable of mjoving your units from this point. I think this is a good hybrid for when the full-on "Growing" list is too slow, but the "traditional" list doesn't pack enough punch. /rant. Summary: Young Nephilim are the word of the day!

Wodschow: You're right the healing, I must have misread the errata at some point. Thanks for catching that, I edited it out. While free healing would be nice not having it doesn't really change any strategies, so no harm done. Lilitu being able to heal themselves is a pretty big deal though, it makes them much more attractive for use in lower SS games. I'm a little confused as to what you mean by Lillith not benefiting from being a Nephilim, afaik the only thing she can't use is Nephilim Heart, which is admittedly a very important one. Chocobo, on the subject of totems, I personally like the Cherub since it's a Nephilim, but I could see using primordial magic too. Student of Conflict seems a little outdated to me since BBS can give Fast as a (1) action and has great synergy with Matures, but I suppose its useful if you can't proxy. I'm going to be very happy when the new Nephilim arrive, unfortuneately that may not be for awhile since Wyrd seems to like to get out their boxsets first

The Blood Sense ability allows you to get a Blood Counter from a model even if Drain Blood was used on it according to a ruling in the RoE thread. So you can get two real blood counters pllus a corpse counter from the death of a 30mm base model. Damaging and subsequently healing your own models also works. In addition to the Blood Shaman, Lilitu also does healing and Nekima provides Regeneration, so there's plenty of heals to go round if you want to go that route. It's not what I was doing in this example however, perhaos I should take a closer look at exactly how efficient this can be. EDIT: Rathnard has stolen my mojo! My plans are covered in gooey pink death! Tots cannot grow via Corpse counters, this could be an issue but I will work it out. In the morning thouh, its 1am here.

Along the lines of screwy lists, I think an exaggerated Papa Bomb with Zoraida would be fun. Zoraida Papa Loco Pere Ravage Nurse Bad Juju Don't have the book to look up SS costs, it'd be a little high bcause of the out-of-faction hiring tax, but this would be hella fun. Blow the enemy to hell with Papa and Pere and then have Bad Juju spawn right in the face of your opponent's battered army, with Zoraida providing backup via Conduit. Model count could be a problem for schemes, but if you don't mind proxying you could always have Z summon Wicked Dolls, they're not Insignifigant around her.

Oh, I meant he picks up a corpse counter, I'll go back and edit that. Blood shaman uses corpse counters as blood ccounters. I'm fairly sure the wording on Instinctual is not meant to prohibit casting the same spell twice with it, I could be wrong though. I think I'll edit out the whole blood in the air thing anyway, it just adds to the length of the post.

No you're right Nilus, that one threw me off at first too, but he can blow himself up because it causes wounds. Anyhow- thread derailment much?

Nephilim. In Book 1 they moved fast, hit hard, evolved and full healed, and were often considered a wee bit overpowered. In Book 2 they got more love than they could have asked for, and I think we will be hearing many more stories of defeat from those who have to deal with these supremely maneuverable monsters. I’m aware that there is already a Lillith tactica on these boards, but I’m looking to make a thread more akin to the Outcast Tactica thread, going through uses of models one by one. I’m going to put them forth in an order that I think will make for the easiest read-through, which will of course most likely make my thread a convoluted mess of half-explained ideas. For the record, everything below can be considered IMHO. 　 ------------------------ Nekima: I choose to start with Nekima because she is, to me, the heart and soul of a Nephilim crew, moreso than any Master or henchman currently in print. Nekima’s use depends largely on what other models you’re running, but her role is generally to stick close to the main army, providing powerful buffs in addition to her own considerable combat prowess to take out the enemy forces. I won’t say any more about her here as she will be winding her way in and out of my theories about how other models should be used. Terror Tots: I tend to think of Terror Tots as my supply line. They are fragile and need to be kept safe from enemy attack, but at the same time need to be near the front lines to provide support by turning into more powerful units. They should be near Nekima since without her casting Grow can be problematic. When a Tot does leave Nekima, it is probably going to be because you need to accomplish an objective and a more important unit cannot be spared for the job. Terror Tots are particularly good at this because Nekima vastly improves their Sprint spell, and they can be given flight in a pinch. If push comes to shove, remember Nekima can give them +masks to attack, making them auto-trigger Flay on their attacks. Young Nephilim: The backbone of the Nephilim army, the Young should stick to Nekima because she can allow them to trigger Flay 100% of the time, giving them the same damage as Mature. They have two major functions- first, they can stick to Nekima and act as standard infantry units, hopefully Matureing during the fighting. Second, they can act as shock troops, using Diving Attack to hit the opponent in unexpected places. Between Flay and Melee Expert a Young can be relied upon to take out enemy scouts quickly and then rejoin the main army, or to draw enemy attention allowing the main army to move about unhindered. Young Nephilim should usually be grown from Tots, so their death is a minor setback. Mature Nephilim: Tall, dark, and ugly, these guys get it done. Unlike their smaller brethren they have little need of Nekima’s support, and are thus the best choice for dealing with threats too far out of the way to hit with the main army. Diving Attack lets them get the drop on their targets more often than not, but even if you have to come out take a few hits that’s OK, 10 wounds and Armor 1 should protect them from most onslaughts. Don’t make the mistake of thinking these guys aren’t expendable- if one dies, another can always be promoted up from the ranks. Black Blood Shaman: The obvious use for BBS is as a support unit for the main army, but it is perhaps the most versatile Nephilim. Early in the game it is good for improving the overall speed of a Nephilim crew by going out first and using Blood in the Air to summon the rest toward it. After that they make the perfect partners for Mature Nephilim since they can be Carried easily. They are by no means slouches in combat due to their poison, and with access to blood counters they become absolute terrors, good at healing, killing, and buffing. As Silver Chocobo once said, Mature Nephilim should never have fast! Nekima can also be used with them to great effect, as she lets them automatically pull off Bloody Mess, getting their blood counters back for free. The bottom line on these guys is that they are just plain hard to fit into smaller lists, but if you can afford them their uses are endless. Malifaux Cherub: Worthy of note as the only Totem Nephilim, this little guy is only available with Lillith and works reasonably well with his brood. Nekima and her +masks to casting is probably the only thing relevent to him, but its possible for him to survive when attacked due to Dissappear, which makes the ready availablity of healing in the crew very nice fo him as well. I would consider him as a cheap alternative to Waldgeist/Hooded Rider(discussed below) since he can spam Illusionary Forest every if you want him to. Warning! Theoryfaux ahead! I have not used Lelu and Lilitu in actual games! Lilitu: Unique on the Nephilim list, Lilitu specializes in bringing the enemy to you rather than the other way around. Combined with her 4” melee range and powerful healing abilities she becomes an excellent support unit even at the steep price of 7ss. Combined with Nekima a Lilitu can keep herself healed without a Lelu on the map, allowing you to use tots instead of Lelu and evolve them when you get a 12 or 13 in hand. As written, they are insane with Nekima, as if they have line of sight to a model they can Lure it in and continuously trigger Double Take for terrific damage output. There’s an entire thread on whether this needs errata here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15042 Lelu: Aside from their obvious capacity to keep Lilitu from withering away into nothing, these guys pack a serious punch. To make up for their lack of flight and Diving Attack they have remarkable healing capabilities, meaning if your opponent wants them dead they have to put serious effort into killing them, making them exellent decoys. They are a halfway point between Young and Mature as far as general tactics go- kept near Nekima they can trigger Flay consistently, but even when going solo they may still activate and be healed along with Lilitu. Special Mention- Enslaved Nephilim: It’s important for Perdita players to remember her totem is a Nephilim. I played a game once where I was hiding behind illusionary forest, late in the game I commented that the Enslaved Nephilim could see through the forest since the ability did not specify Friendly Nephilim, and though I won that game, my opponent and I both agreed it might have gone differently if he had known that from the beginning his totem had LoS to my stuff. If you’re running Dita, be sure to know which abilities affect it and which ones don’t! Also, I think it would make a cool Lelu proxy, but that’s just me. 　 -------------------------- The Women Behind the Nephilim- Lillith: The obvious choice to lead her own brood, Lillith does indeed have a great deal of synergy with her children. Since both she and her totem are Nephilim all the tricks you’re using to help your units apply to her too, and Drain Blood and Blood from Stone can provide more fuel for your army. The downside of Lillith is that she is a mobile melee killing machine, which is something the Nephilim already have in spades. Transposition and Earthquake let you engage the enemy that much more efficiently. There’s a while tactica for her here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9302 Zoraida: A viable option for leading the Nephilim crew, Zoraida has little synergy with her own crew so she loses nothing by trying to lead the Nephilim. She’s especially good at getting those hard-to-reach enemies via conduit, and using Obey to finish off an enemy or help a wayward Nephilim rejoin the pack. In addition to this she is good for accomplishing objectives because she is very mobile and can summon Stitched Together to pad your model count for strategies like Claim Jump or Reconnoiter. For me her main selling point is she does not need additional SS, and she gets her totem free, meaning I have more SS leftover to buy Nephilim when playing her. Pandora: Haven’t played her myself, but Lilitu and to a lesser extent Nekima and Matures cause quite a few wp duels. Add that to the fact that lelu and lilitu are Woes and she looks like she has potentail as a Nephilim leader, but that’s just theoryfaux from me. Other units of note: Desperate Mercenary: If you intend to cannibalize your own units for blood counters, these guys are the cheapest option available, period. Waldgeist/Hooded Rider: Good for protecting your forces from ranged attacks on maps with limited cover. The Waldgeist is cheaper but really only works if you have Lillith to make Illusionary Forests. The Hooded Rider is powerful in combat, keep him on Night mode to protect your army. Good Rider thread found here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15534 Everything Else: Many neverborn models are extremely powerful and may be tempting to add on the crew. In general I would advise against including non-neverborn models without a good reason, since they won't synergise with the rest of the crew. Nekima synchs well with anything that targets wp, but if you're hiring something like that its probably in place of Lilitu who does synch up. I think with all the new units provided in Book 2 there is very little incentive to marry outside the clan. (Does anything I say make sense?) ------------------------ Strategies and lists: I’ve written out what’s probably the most efficient way to grow your tots into Mature Nephilim on turn 1 here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15209 It needs to get cleaned up a bit, I will do so when I can. I will try to keep any relevant (and reasonably short) strategies posted by others in this thread here as well. Well, that's it for me. I'm curious to see what people think of my uses of the Nephilim crew, particularly whether others agree that Nekima is almost an aouto-include for a Nephilim list. Hope you enjoyed this small tactica about that elite sub-faction we know and love. :feedback:

Generally onw type of effect doesn't clash with another. Only 1 Summon per death. Only 1 Card Draw per death. Only 1 of any kind of counter for a 30mm base eath. But none of these clashes with the other, so you can have a new skeeter and a card draw. I think Larva sacrifices the target so you wouldn't get any corpse counters.

Oh yeah, that reminds me- awesome avatar Lawyer! You know we should just make this thread about Squee and how much welove him now.

Where does it say in the rulebook you must have the appropriate miniature to use a model in a game? Wyrd allows and in fact frequently encourages creative proxying. Just because certain TOs don't want to allow proxying does not mea that that is an officail rule. As for whether nicodem works that way, remember he is not listed as unique in the book. He has an ability that allows him to choose to be affected by spells that affect undead as if he were Undead. Reanimate is such a spell, so while you may argue that it shouldn't work this way, without him being Unique(which at the time of that thread he was not officailly) you have to at least accept that the rule is debateable. Yes I realize that it is moot now

There is a rule that says you may only hire 1 Henchman per Master, but hiring rules do not apply to models summoned in game. There was a similar question asked awhile back about whether Nicodem could summon himself, since he is a non-spirit Undead and in the book Masters are not listed as being Unique. On their stat cards they are however, and I imagine Henchmen will be listed the same. The rules as they stand though, I do not believe there is anything stopping this from being legal until her stat card comes out with Unique printed in big bold letters on the front, or an officail ruling is made. I would say that this is clearly an oversight, but then I would have said that Nekima+Lilitu Lure combo was clearly an oversight ad that is apparently working as intendid, as is Mobile Toolkit+Collette triple tomes casting combo.

I might be wrong but I think I remember reading in the hiring section that you can only have 2 models out of faction, regardless of how you're hiring them. As for the list itself, I can't comment as there are just too many things I haven't used.