ispep

If I cared about any ones delicate snowflake feelings, I'd sugar coat my posts. I don't care, so I'm not going to be polite just for you. Correct, a painting competition is indeed a competition for painting. This isn't about those though, this is about a gaming competition that recognizes the best looking models, regardless of who painted them or how much they paid for it. There are more people who do commissions than the top ten painters in the world. I've seen some commission jobs I wouldn't even classify as table top quality. I'm not a great painter, but if I put enough time into a crew, I feel I could compete with a commissioned job. After all, it was still a person who painted it, whether they are the person playing in the tournament or not. Suppose one of the people in the tournament does commission painting, should he be disqualified from having the best looking army? I mean, he's a pro and one of the top 10 painters, so it's clearly unfair to Average Joe's who think they are good. Thats great. You enjoy painting. Some people don't. And your money is more valuable to you than your time. I don't see how this makes the models you took the time to paint any better painted than the models the other guy spent the money to have done. Because you enter your crew in the tournament, and it looks better than anyone else's. If you pay for a paint job, and don't enter the tournament, you don't get best painted awards. But if you entered, you get access to all the awards available. The award isn't best painter, it is best painted. Once again, if it is the best looking army, it looks the best. It doesn't matter who it was painted by.

My primary intent is not to derail the thread or provoke anyone into an emotional response. I couldn't care less if anyone has any response, emotional or otherwise. What I see is people complaining that someone else has a perceived advantage because that someone else spent money that they wouldn't. This isn't the case, as either way you are investing something in the painted figures, whether it is money or time. If you were confident in your painting skills, you wouldn't care whether someone paid to have their army painted. If you had money to spend on having your minis painted by someone else, you also wouldn't complain.

It really isn't that new. People have been doing it for a while. It is especially rampant on the WoW forums, so much so that the mods subscribe to it as well.

Low blows perhaps, but still on topic. And the most reasonable explanation of why people would be so afraid of "competing" against for-pay painting.

At what point did I change the topic? All of my posts are honest observations of why people don't want commissioned armies to be included in best painted.

Way to keep it classy. Can't think of a comeback so just completely change the thread.

I'm still waiting for a valid reason why a crew that was painted by commission is somehow less great looking than one someone painted themselves. "I'm jealous he has more disposable income than me" isn't a valid reason.

He is paying to have a nice looking crew. If he wanted, he could paint it himself. Given enough time, he could probably make it look just as good. His time is clearly worth more to him than the cost of the painting. Just because it wasn't done by him doesn't mean its any less of a nice paint job.

It has NOTHING to do with who pays what. It is about how one chooses to use their time. You spend a month painting your crew, Jack over there will wait a month for the painter to finish and do other things like work or family or whatever while the painter does his thing. Just because someone pays to have their crew in a miniature tournament, not a painting competition, painted by someone else, that does not diminish any one who wants to waste all their time paintings work. All of you people who are so worried about a commissioned crew beating you must be pretty bad painters.

A best painted award is solely there to encourage people to bring painted armies. So that its not just a bunch of tables with a bunch of silver or primed models. So that those who paint, or who had their models painted, can show off and feel better about themselves vs. those who didn't invest the time or money. I don't know anyone who has gone to a tournament for the sole reason of winning the best painted. I've never heard someone say "I'm going to a painting competition with a tournament side event." Its very easy to describe what a "best painted" crew or army is. It is the one that is well executed technically, with a pleasing color palette and a strong cohesive theme, that makes it look like it belongs together. Technical execution and innovative use of different techniques is definitely the most important element though.

While most of the metals are fine, I've had a number of pretty bad ones. One of my warpigs I basically had to resculpt the entire mane on his back. The other I had to fill a huge gap on his underside that no matter how much filing I did I couldn't get it flush. The handle on one of my Belle's parasol had several bubbles so that I had to replace it with brass rod. The stomach maw on my LCB wasn't formed clearly, his fingers were misaligned some, and one of his extra arms didn't fit at all. I've had GW plastic sprues with a 2mm offset on the whole sprue. I've seen many Reaper figs that had incomplete limbs/extremities. Modelling is a hobby, and you should expect to sometimes have to put some sort of effort into the minis, or just stick with Heroclix.

I still say there is a signifacant difference between a gaming tournament with a best painted prize, and a painting competition. Clearly in a painting competition, your entry should be based on the painting of the person who entered the model(s). Paying someone to paint your tank, and then entering it into the Golden Demon wouldn't be right. If you paid to have your army painted and want to enter a Grand Tournament, if it is the best painted army it should be eligible for that title. In either case representing something as your own work when it isn't is wrong. But representing something as looking better than everything else when that is objective of the category then there is no issue. As I've said before, just because someone pays to have their things painted doesn't mean there isn't someone there who is a better painter than who you paid.

I'm guessing you've never worked in any sort of manufacturing or shipping facility?

And one of those top ten painters in the world could show up with their personal army. Joe average isn't going to win then, either.

The intent is for a well painted crew to receive recognition for being well painted, regardless of who painted it. Its generally an extra bonus of a gaming tournament, not specifically a painting competition. If you are going to disqualify professionally painted armies, you should disqualify all of them, not just the ones someone chose to pay for. Also, if I were a commission painter, I would feel insulted that somehow my time and efforts weren't worth anything just because I wasn't the one playing the army.

The "it becomes a bigger wallet contest" thing is a joke. Just because Steve pays someone to paint his models, does not mean Alan is automatically unable to paint a decent figure. There are plenty of awesome painters who have never done work for someone else, and their chances of winning aren't reduced because someone else paid to have their crew done. Should we disqualify commission painters who are playing their own armies? After all, they are paying the opportunity cost of painting their own stuff instead of painting other peoples stuff and getting paid.

If the store isn't going to devote the small amount of space to stock the full line, I'd probably just go with the crew boxes and associated totems.

When I remeber I'll use focused strikes with my Bayou Gremlin shooting. It has made a difference on occasion, but I rarely remember to do it.

I didn't start playing Malifaux until the first league. There is a chance we've met, I've been shopping at Pandemonium since they moved from MGC in the late 90s, and I've worked there in various capacities for several years now.

Pandemonium - 1858 Middlebelt, Garden City We've got 5-6 regulars, a few more stragglers, and a bunch of people like me who have crews and never play.

You could probably work something out with RIFTs or HERO. Both are pretty flexible systems.

Honestly, stop stripping your minis. At least right away. Even if you aren't happy with the way they look, deal with it for a while. Paint some more stuff, and compare. Once you've learned all you can from the model you aren't happy with, feel free to give it the ol' acetone bath. Watching your progress through what you've done is a great way to learn. It also provides positive reinforcement, looking at a less than great model then looking at how you've improved. It will keep you on track to getting even better. As far as your Judge, he's looking great. The hair is especially nice. You have good clean brushwork, which is possibly the most important skill in painting miniatures. The shadows on the coat are a little strong but I think it looks good on this model.

Bayou Gremlin 31,337. Or the slop hauler or the taxidermist, or a skit with Opheila and the gremlinette in a Collette/Casandra type discussion.

There is this other new thing they call context. Using context my post made no sense to any of yours, while it was directly related to what Karn had said a few posts previously.

My post was directed more towards Karn and others who expect every single thread to stay precisely on topic and not stray at all. But if you want to be a contrary little queen, more power to you.