Csonti

Yes, Lilith is within 6" of herself and friendly to herself. Indeed this is an Attack Action but the "friendly model within 6" of Lilith" is NOT targeted with the Attack Action. All in all this is as legal as it could be.

This converesation gave me the necessary push to include the photos of the games. At first I neglected them as I didn't want to make the posts even more lengthy but I found a way to do that in a space efficient way.

Yeah, I noticed that too after the game. I think it didn't change the flow of the game too much since he could spend that SS on prevention with almost the same result.

It was played during last fall.

To be honest I much prefer Silurids over Gupps. Reasons: if you take multiple jumping models you need to ensure that those Abilities will go off. In case of Silurids a 5+ is roughly a 2/3 chance and the rare cases when it fails you can spare a middle card in your hand. On the other hand Gupps need a of any kind. This is only a 25% chance which is in my book a "never count on that one" case. So in order to work with multiple Gupps effectively you will need a lot of cards from your hand. And if you have a 11+ , using that on a Leap is usually not the most effective resource management. Also as I mentioned Silurids can Leap and put a Claim Marker in every turn without destroying the Marker placed by them on the previous turn. This is something the Gupps can't do. Thirdly sometimes their bigger base is a problem when you try to find an ideal way to place them after a Leap. With all that said in that game the starting Gupps worked just fine in a defensive role. I could place a Marker on enemy territory with them while destroying 2 Markers on my side. That was a good show. I picked them because I had 4 points left. I would never take multiple copies of them from the start. Don't want to come up as an overconfident prick but this was my easiest Scheme-denial during the whole league. As I said, the terrain was full of multi level buildings so I could hide my Primordial in either side of the board. It was safely placed in the building while on the roof the sniping pair ensured that noone could come close. He didn't have incorporeal models, nor any extra fast one. He didn't have the chance to even have LoS to my totem during the whole game. I would take this setup against that crew in any day on that map. Of course, I could run into a more agressive crew (Pigapult could pose some problem) but in that case I could try to play with even more caution and say plant a forest before the totem who is on the corner and when the enemy tries to go for it I just exchange it with Lilith for maybe Nekima and bring down some pain to the expeditionary forces.

Oh, the Dreamer wins on his own, I just needed to field him. Given the right goals and the proper terrain you can hardly find better objective grabbers. This is especially true during Stake a Claim since they can put out a Marker per turn without destroying the Marker that was laid down on the previous turn. One story about the Silurid power: in a one day tournament my opponent killed my Zoraida at the start of turn 2. However I won the game by 9-2 thanks to the 2 Silurids who used this time to advance up unhindered till the enemy deploy zone on both sides. Of course it was Stake a Claim. Actually I don't like spamming things but Stake a Claim kinda forced me to do that in competitive environment. Also during the first game I needed a lot of cheap models to try to outactivate my opponent before I launch the assassination run. That's why it was full of Tots.

1. I hang out in bars and tell my story to pretty girls. 2. ... 3. Profit

So with some miracle I found myself at the top 16 battling out for the crown. The pairings were based on the regular season performance so I had to face strong opposition from the start. In case of a draw after a game the tie-breakers were: more points from the Strategy goes through, if still a tie, the higher seeded player goes through. That forced me to put extra effort on strategy VPs. Game #5 (round of 16) vs Aidan Kirk (aka most probably CunningStunt) Deploy: Normal Strategy: Squatter's Rights Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Breakthrough, Plant Evidence, Frame for Murder My crew: The Dreamer -- 7 Pool +Dreams of Pain [5] +Otherworldly [2] +Pact [1] Daydream X 3 [6] Insidious Madness [5] Teddy [11] +Pact [1] Terror Tot [4] Widow Weaver [8] +On Dreaming Wings [2] +The Mimic's Blessing [1] Aidan’s team: Shenlong -- 5 Pool +Wandering River Style [2] +Words on the River [1] Peasant [2] Bishop [11] +Recalled Training [1] Sensei Yu [9] +Promising Disciple [2] +Smoke Bombs [1] Ten Thunders Brother [5] Ten Thunders Brother [5] Tengu [4] Tengu [4] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2 is missing, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5, end This was my first attempt ever with the Dreamer so I played a little uneasy during the game. My opponent made a first turn mistake with pushing too hard and that was punished by my Teddy who got some flying lessons from the Weaver and could reach Bishop. A few hits, pushes, hazardous terrain and smell fear later he was dead. That gave me a 11+1 SS lead from the start which was hard to counter. The 10T fought bravely but the Widow Weaver played an excellent game with paralyzing Shenlong once and Yu twice. Aidan found out that I have Frame for Murder on my Teddy so he refrained to kill it but it came with the price of letting it rumble all over his crew. I pushed Shenlong back to the deploy zone from the center, effectively neutralizing him for an entire turn. At the end of the day I won by 7-2. Game #6 (quarter final) vs Kris Ingram (aka Rgarbonzo) Deploy: Normal Strategy: Reckoning Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Entourage, Make them Suffer, Distract My crew: Lilith -- 6 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Pact [1] Primordial Magic [2] Doppleganger [7] Hans [9] Nekima [13] Teddy [11] +On Dreaming Wings [2] Kris’ group: Wong -- 4 Pool +Explosive Solutions [2] +Ooo Glowy [1] Lovely Assistant [3] Lightning Bug [5] Lightning Bug [5] Lightning Bug [5] McTavish [10] +Hide in the Mud [1] Rooster Rider [6] Rooster Rider [6] Slop Hauler [5] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5, end After seeing that the opponent brought many Minion models I went for Make Them Suffer and Bodyguard on my flying Teddy. Kris had Entourage on Wong and also Make Them Suffer which was a strange choice since I only had the Primordial as legal target. And it was never in danger since I put my Totem on a safe spot in a multi-story building so he gave up 3 points from the start. The terrain was full of buildings and a relatively open center. That was the reason I took Hans and deployed the Doppy near him. The pair made a very effective sniping duo and melted the enemy quickly. The others preyed on the weak sides. Nekima had no problem fly over a large wall, hit once the Rider, spread some Black Blood and return to her original spot that ensured absolutely safety. Lilith also toyed a bit with replacing models here and there and delivered Teddy to an optimal position to score for Bodyguard. Final result: 8-2 win Game #7 (semi final) vs Alex Parson (aka Lysis) Deploy: Corner Strategy: Reconnoiter Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Breakthrough, Murder Protege, Plant Explosives, Protect Territory My crew: The Dreamer -- 5 Pool +Dreams of Pain [5] +Otherworldly [2] +Pact [1] Daydream X 3 [6] Coppelius [8] +On Dreaming Wings [2] Insidious Madness [5] Teddy [11] Widow Weaver [8] Alex’s team: Shenlong -- 2 Pool +Wandering River Style [2] Peasant [2] Chiaki the Niece [6] +Blot Out the Sky [1] Sensei Yu [9] +Promising Disciple [2] Shadow Effigy [4] Ten Thunders Brother [5] Ten Thunders Brother [5] Thunder Archer [7] Thunder Archer [7] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5/end Again a Shenlong crew, this time with some Archer-shenanigans. The map had a nice forest near the center so it was clear that if I let him entrench there, my models will die like flies from the hail of arrows. Fortunately Alex put one of his Archer just a little bit to much forward and this bad positioning let my Teddy a first turn charge against him (after a lot of Daydream pushes of course). With one Archer dead, his key tactic was crippled and at the start of the next turn it was permanently neutralized since Teddy ate the other one too. From this point I had a royal position and managed to hold the initial advantage. Final score was 10-3 but it would be a much harder struggle if Alex didn't put his Archer to that weak spot on turn 1. Game #8 (final) vs Douglas Lesavoy (aka Aesop) Deploy: Flank Strategy: Stake a Claim Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Assassinate, Deliver a Message, Distract, Outflank My crew: The Dreamer -- 5 Pool +Dreams of Pain [5] Daydream X 2 [4] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Hexed Among You [1] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Doug’s team: Zoraida -- 6 Pool +Animal Shape [2] Fingers [10] Francois LaCroix [7] +Stilts [1] Pigapult [8] Stuffed Piglet [2] Stuffed Piglet [2] Stuffed Piglet [2] Stuffed Piglet [2] Stuffed Piglet [2] Stuffed Piglet [2] Trixiebelle [8] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5/end This game was really worthy for a final. I went with the Silurid spam to score for the strategy while the Dreamer had the task to summon anything it needs to interfere with the enemy’s plan. Doug choosed a very agressive style: he pigapulted all of his Henchman near my Dreamer and Zoraida followed them in crow form. During the second turn he assaulted my Master but I could hold with a lot of SS use then escaped thanks to LCB. I had a decent chance to neutralize the Pigapult but my Silurids (and cards) failed me and it lived through another turn. That let him throw 3 Stuffed Piglets in my backyard and Zoraida ordered a chain explosion. Luckily I was able to move most of my precious stuff away before the Pigs started to explode. While the strategy was firmly in my hand I had serious problems with my Schemes (Distract and Deliver a Message). Most of the action took place on a 6” high building so my Minions had hard time to get there, live through a turn and interact with his big guns. After a fierce fight the Dreamer went down on turn 4 but Doug was also depleted by that time. I managed to sneak up a Silurid to the rooftop at last and winning the initiative on turn 5 gave me the necessary points to win the game. This was a brutal fight where my opponent played an excellent game. I especially give him credit for handling Zoraida in a very effective and vicious way. It was a honour to play in this long league and I needed some luck to get where I finished after a less than optimal start. Hope some of you will find a few interesting things in this long rant. If you need any more detail, don’t hesitate to ask!

So I was eager to read the report of Ant in THIS post about his win in the UK Masters final. And that gave me the idea to publish my stuff since I managed to win a 40 players strong tournament as Neverborn that was organized by the A Wyrd Place Facebook group. (If you are not already a member, you better do it now because it is a good bunch of Malifaux fans.) The rules were as follows: 8 groups with 5 players each play a round-robin among themselves. After 4 rounds the top 2 spots were moved to the final 16 where the winner was decided by a straight knock-out style system. So all in all I had 4+4 games. UPDATE: I have added the Vassal screenshots of the games. These will ideally can give you a good way to follow the battles but please note that the information is not always correct (like the position of models in or on a multi-storey building, turn numbers, VP or sometimes I forgot to save the turn at the exact start). Group stage: After the tournament I can firmly state that our group was the death group. Due to time zone issues, most of the European players were put in one place. So I got Joel Henry (UK #1.), Connor Barker (UK #18. who was AFAIK eliminated in the semi-final of the UK Masters with a draw by the later winner), Chris Hay (UK #24.) and Oscar Gonzalez (an old arch-rival of mine who plays at a very high level). Game #1 vs. Oscar Gonzalez (aka Razhem) Deploy: Flank Strategy: Reconnoiter Scheme Pool: A Line in the Sand, Assassinate, Cursed Object, Distract, Protect Territory My forces: Lilith -- 6 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] Primordial Magic [2] Killjoy [13] Nekima [13] +Pact [1] +The True Mother [2] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Oscar’s stuff: Kirai Ankoku -- 6 Pool +Spirit Beacon [1] +Swirling Aether [2] +Unforgiven [2] Lost Love [4] Datsue Ba [8] +Spirit Whispers [1] Flesh Construct [6] Izamu the Armor [10] +Decaying Aura [2] Night Terror [3] Night Terror [3] Rotten Belle [5] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5, end I took Assassinate and aimed my forces to achieve a quick master-kill since against a Resser player that is the most safe way to stop the flood of new models. After some positioning I launched my offensive late turn 2 and after the first activation of the 3rd turn Kirai, the Lost Love and Datsue Ba was dead (I mean REALLY dead). The process was as follows: Lilith teleported Nekima forward who launched an attack against the Lost Love and summoned a Tot from a nearby Seishin who got some Black Blood. With her last AP (melee expert) she killed the Tot to bring out Killjoy. The later started to eat Kirai’s face who was finished up by Nekima next turn. From this point I started to play a little careless and Oscar played a beautifull game with his remaining forces. Before Kirai died he summoned up at least a Hanged, a Shikome, a Gaki and some Seishin. I could neutralize the Hanged and the Shikome with terrain placement and Wicked Vines but Izamu played a great game and the Rotten Belle notoriously slowed my Lilith. All in all a catastrophic charge by Killjoy put an end to my game. His task was to kill the wounded Belle but couldn’t even hit her from 3 Attacks. There was no extra round and I suffered a 7-8 loss. Game #2 vs. Joel Henry (aka Joel) Deploy: Normal Strategy: Turf War Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Breakthrough, Power Ritual, Kidnap, Protect Territory My crew: Zoraida -- 6 Pool +Hex Bag [1] +Hexed Among You [1] +Tarot Reading [2] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] McTavish [10] Nurse [6] Waldgeist [6] Waldgeist [6] Waldgeist [6] Joel’s list: Lilith -- 5 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] Primordial Magic [2] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Waldgeist [6] Waldgeist [6] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5, end It was a fantastic game. I took ALiTS and Prot. Territory while Joel went for Breakthrough and Power Ritual. My plan was to occupy the scoring center early and agressively hold the territory while my models start to put down some markers that will be sorted out properly by Zoraida at the last round. I didn’t put much effort to deny Joel’s schemes. I would like to do mines and deny him 1 or 2 points from the strategy. All went pretty well according to the plans but during the 4th turn I drew the BJ on a Horror Duel with Zoraida on a killing attack against his badly damaged Juju while she had 2 APs left in her Activation. That single card pretty much destroyed my game. In order to get back I would need stellar luck in turn5 or an extra turn. None of that happened, so I lost to 8-10 to a very good player. Game #3 vs. Chris Hay (aka cdhay) Deploy: Normal Strategy: Reckoning Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Vendetta, Plant Evidence, Protect Territory My forces: Lilith -- 6 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Pact [1] Primordial Magic [2] Insidious Madness [5] Lazarus [11] Nekima [13] +The True Mother [2] Taelor [11] Chris’s choice: The Dreamer -- 7 Pool +Restless Dreams [1] +Tantrum [2] Teddy [11] Teddy [11] Teddy [11] Widow Weaver [8] +On Dreaming Wings [2] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5, end I had a definitive advantage in this game since I expected the Dreamer as my enemy. I took a killer crew just tailored around destroying big things like Teddy Bears or LCB. In turn 2 I transported an already activated Teddy in front of Taelor who finished it with ease after Lilith softed up the bear a little bit. Meanwhile the rest of the Dreamer’s crew have to cross an artificial forest then a sewer. That gave me plenty of time to organize my second wave attack. The Dreamer advanced up behind the two remaining Teddies and planed to bring out LCB. However the last Waking was never happened because of the dreaded BJ. Lazarus loaded its full ammo and assaulted the kid who survived at the price of some cards and a badly wounded Teddy. I finished the bear and the Dreamer with relative ease and a few activations later the last Teddy was also down without any of my models killed. From here it was just VP hunting and denying. At the end I had a 9-1 win in my bag. Game #4 vs Connor Barker (aka Proximocoal) Deploy: Normal Strategy: Stake a Claim Scheme pool: A Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Breakthrough, Deliver a Message, Make Them Suffer My team: Zoraida -- 5 Pool +Animal Shape [2] +Hex Bag [1] +Hexed Among You [1] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Fears Given Form [1] Gupps [4] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Spawn Mother [9] Connor’s gremlins: Somer Teeth Jones -- 7 Pool +Dirty Cheater [1] +Family Tree [2] +Liquid Bravery [1] Skeeter [2] Bayou Gremlin [3] Bayou Gremlin [3] Bayou Gremlin [3] Bayou Gremlin [3] Francois LaCroix [7] Pigapult [8] Slop Hauler [5] Trixiebelle [8] +Gun for a Lady [1] Gallery: deploy, (start of) turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5, end This was Stake a Claim so I had a very agile team to try to outscore my opponent with strategic markers. It was a very hard task against a standard Gremlin-factory. Connor was doing the stuff quite good during the first turns. Gremlins were catapulted all over my half and of course Deliver the Message was a nobrainer with Trixiebelle in his crew. Although I managed the kill Francois early with the Juju after he went for my infiltrator Silurid but the situation looked very grim around the end of turn 2 for me. But slowly I started to get a grip on the game. I outscored the parachuted Gremlins with my Silurids and even managed to kill some. While at the other half of the board Somer was forced to abandon his precious factory in order to try to score with Make Them Suffer since the very useful Trixibelle was also eaten by the very hungry Juju. There was a good many tricks and tries on both sides but at the end I managed to deliver my message and that sealed the fate of the game. The 9-5 win was enough to put me at the second spot of our group since the other games went absolutely well from my perspective. (I will continue the saga in the next post in order to not make a monster OP.)

They can't prevent damage but they can spend a stone to get on the defensive flip and on the damage. In most cases the later will ensure that Seamus will remain in the uncheatable territory even during a focused attack and that will yield most probably a weak damage. And that is usually not worth the effort.

At the start of M2E I have put my toes into Resser territory with Seamus. I played around 15 games with him and I think I lost maybe once. That should hint something about his potential.

Yeah, I think it is not about crying omfgbrkn because somebody won a big event but the natural curiosity about what type of crew selections proved to be effective. I'm all ears about any info I can get from big events' top placed players.

Fair point but still this piece of information was not in the description. Of course you can assume that there are no more models left but in case of puzzles you should give all the necessary information in order to avoid confusion. Thanks for the real map this is much clearer and I imagined this kind of position when seeing the stuff on the Chronicles. However the measurements are still dubious. The Drowned is on a 30 mm base which is much wider than 1" but on the map it looks as if the base would be a hair smaller than 1". That was one of my problems when I started to interpret the simplified picture. Open Spoiler The other was whether I can place Jack on the other side of the Ice Golem to be on the centerline or not. Which is a clear thing now although the scale problems are here too since the Ice Golem's 50mm base is almost 2" but the map suggests that you could even place another large base model between the Golem and the sideline. Which is obviously impossible if it is a 3" wide area. PS: Also I don't know what difficulty 3 would actually like to mean. Is it on a 1-5 or 1-10 scale, or something else?

Yeah, as you mention it now I can see that in zoom in mode. Still the graphics are quite hazy. For example the 3" over Montresor looks much bigger than the one over the Ice Golem. I'm really uncertain about the interpretation of distances and model position. It's a pity since I find the idea of puzzles brilliant. Hope for a better execution next time.

Then I must have misunderstood something. I have a hard time figuring out how to properly connect the measurements with the models' position. I also don't see where is the centerline and where it connects the sidelines - in addition I can only guess that there is not a single Scheme Marker laid down to achieve ALITS yet. Also it is Reckoning but there is no mention about previously killed enemy models in this final round. So I just gave up without starting to solve it.

updated with February info

Hi All, We have started a nationwide league in order to help the testing process. The details can be read HERE in Hungarian. If you would like to join as a foreigner living here, please contact me for info.

It is UP!

You can dose him with the Nurse for +2 damage if he is already in a good place to start his activation. So with Flurry you get 3 Attacks with a 4/7/9 damage spread. Even weak is painful but a lucky moderate on a flip yields some devastating power.

I don't have my math at hand but I'm pretty sure it is close to 10 (or +3 compared to the straight flip). So it is only 1 better than a simple positive.

With two turns of heavy summoning you will most probably outactivate Sonnia around the middle of turn 2. If you were cautious not to wander into direct LoS till that time you can launch a Teddy missile forward with Daydreams. Of course she can try to cross your plans with careful model and pillar placement but in case of a flying Teddy this is still a hard task. You most probably can lay down 1 or 2 hits on her which is not enough but you can Peekaboo! her around where she will be more prone to other attacks and your Teddy is on a more safer spot against her crew. And if you win the next turn initiative, chances are high that after a Flurry Sonnia will be near dead with low or zero SS in her bag. Even if she wins the init Teddy can most probably survive the first assault aimed to dispatch him and then he regens and starts eating face meanwhile transporting Sonnia towards you to finish her. Of course the whole thing means that you have to be super cautious during turns 1-2 which is certainly a problem in some scenarios.

Various things could be the answer to this. Maybe not enough people playing Sonnia to have an impact. Maybe this combo wasn't noticed by many who play her yet. Maybe some of us see it but find the playstyle so boring that forces us to skip it. And maybe because it is not at all OP. Out of curiosity: do you win frequently when you decide to use this combo?

Not really. This is an opposed duel between two friendly models. Loco can relent, no matter what the DM flips.

One: This means usually turn 2 and 3, a handicap for sure but not that harsh. And you will have the buff on your Master for 4 turns in this case. Two: Actually you use that "7 stones" the hardest when Papa is in the box and a Master shoots things to pieces. Three: 13 stones indeed but you still have a Marshal to activate, move around, hold a quarter, take some shots, place markers, distract the enemy's plans etc. And still have a chance to unleash Loco on the enemy at the second half of the game. So the real price to get on damage on your Master usually isn't 13 SS. Yeah, practically the only hard counter. There are other ways to dig out Loco but those need much more resources and some help from the player who plays the Loco trick. And even if you happen to play against Tara you simply don't use the combo and play with the two pieces as normal. Maybe you could have spent better your 13 SS but they are certainly not unplayable models even without the bury shenanigans. We disagree here. Most of your examples need to be played in an aggressive way which means the opponent at least have a chance to tackle them. I don't think a Desolation Engine is harder to be dispatched than a Death Marshal who is carefully positioned (out of LoS and evading any serious harm) - while Sonnia with is nearby to blow up anyone who dares to interfere. But even if you are willing to move forward the enemy, the DM is not that easy to kill and when he is gone there goes a serious retaliation in face of some burning dynamites. On a more general approach: I think it is not accidental that you keep hearing concerns about this combo. In M2E you need to work much harder for a on the damage flip than it was the case in v1.5. For example Charge now doesn't grant that. It is also a fact that the most potent Actions (like Obey and friends) usually have the non-Leader restriction. But here we have a buff that grants on every damage flip, doesn't end for many turns and the enemy doesn't have any simple way to get rid of it (except Tara), can be put on a Master who could be a so fierce piece as Sonnia who can harm A LOT of models from far away if she reaches the moderate/severe level thanks to Pyrokinesis and the many she can lay down. Hypoking mentioned that Sonnia doesn't really need that on damage since she could attack with Ca9. She could but that comes with a pretty steep price (especially if you face "drop some cards or die" type enemies) and even with Ca9 against a normal Df5 guy she needs a 2+ better card than the target to reach the cheatable range. With Loco's help this turns around to a need for a card that could be even 3 point weaker than the opponent's. This makes a real difference. You can preserve your high cards for the damage flip. With all that said I can't say with 100% certainty that this is an OP combo. Especially not if we define OP as a thing that you couldn't win against (but maybe OP should not have a so harsh definition). I think this trick is a very safe mechanism that enhances a Master's potential (and when I say Master, I mean Sonnia) to a stellar level. This provides a steep uphill battle in most of the cases.