Triggers and blast damage

[Erik1978]

Misaki vs Ramos today.

Misaki Dowbursts a large arachnid close to Ramos, he declares his Df trigger "Repulsion" when testing to see if he is pushed away from the arachnid.

But Misaki isn't the attacker in this instance, is she? Downburst is a tactical action not even targeting Ramos but is the large arachnid the attacker or is there no attacker at all?

Misaki puts blasts out through Thunder, which kills 3 steam arachnids and the other blast marker damage Ramos for 3.

Do the attacker decide damage order here? And how about Ramos' Opportunist heal? After all damage has been dealt, he THEN heals 2 for each spider in range and LoS or can the blasts kill the spiders, which heals Ramos and THEN the other blast marker damages Ramos? We decided they were all damaged at the same time, meaning Ramos healed afterwards when the spiders then died from the damage.

[solkan]

4 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

Misaki vs Ramos today.

Misaki Dowbursts a large arachnid close to Ramos, he declares his Df trigger "Repulsion" when testing to see if he is pushed away from the arachnid.

Ramos's Repulsion trigger pushes the Attacker away from Ramos, it doesn't push Ramos or the arachnid.

4 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

But Misaki isn't the attacker in this instance, is she? Downburst is a tactical action not even targeting Ramos but is the large arachnid the attacker or is there no attacker at all?

See Opposed Duels for the part in the rules where Attacker and Defender are defined.  There's no Attacker or Defender in a simple Duel, even if the simple duel is using the Df stat.

4 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

Misaki puts blasts out through Thunder, which kills 3 steam arachnids and the other blast marker damage Ramos for 3.

Do the attacker decide damage order here?

See paragraph three of Blasts, the last sentence: "In situations where the order that models suffer damage matters, the Attacker may determine the order in which the affected models resolve the blast effects."

4 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

And how about Ramos' Opportunist heal? After all damage has been dealt, he THEN heals 2 for each spider in range and LoS or can the blasts kill the spiders, which heals Ramos and THEN the other blast marker damages Ramos?

No, there's no such thing as "simultaneous" as far as Malifaux is concerned.  Ramos heals as each of the spiders die, there's no delay or queue for the effect.   That's what the words "When another friendly Construct... is killed, this model heals 2 damage means." 

'When' effects happen as soon as their condition is satisfied, before you continue resolving whatever caused the condition.

In practice, that means that when X and Y happen in a rule:

• X happens.  Any effect that changes how X happens get applied now.  (Effects like "When this model suffers damage, increase or decrease the damage by some amount" doesn't happen retroactively.)
• Resolve all of the effects triggered "when" X happens that don't specify happening later or earlier.
• Resolve all of the effects triggered "after" X happens that don't specify happening later or earlier.
• Then Y happens.

 

4 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

We decided they were all damaged at the same time, meaning Ramos healed afterwards when the spiders then died from the damage.

This isn't 2nd edition Warmachine/Hordes.  There's no simultaneous damage and healing.  (And no Attack Main Sequence. )

 

[Ludvig]

The attacker chooses the damage order so you can kill Ramos before he heals if you choose to resolve against him first. If ou resolvw against thr spiders first it matters greatly if it's "when" or "after" in Ramos' heal which I don't know by heart.

If there is no attacker because he was damaged by a tactical action he can't push because he has nothing to push away from. 

[Erik1978]

So the spiders could die, and Ramos heal (at full wounds at this point anyway), and then the other blast hits him in the face. Good to know.

Quote

Ramos's Repulsion trigger pushes the Attacker away from Ramos, it doesn't push Ramos or the arachnid.

What I meant to say was: the Downburst causes Ramos to be pushed away from the Large Arachnid, unless he beats a TN 13 Df duel. And in doing this duel, we wondered if he could push the attacker away. (And wondered who was the attacker, if there was one).

The tactical action reads: "Models within 3" of target model other than the target must succeed on a Df 13 duel or be pushed 4" away from the target."

But since this is a simple duel for Ramos, that answers all.