Charge vs. Engaged

[MadmanMSU]

Some confusion on my part, was hoping someone could help me clear this up.

 

Let's assume you have a Lord Chompy Bits (3 inch range) model that is three inches away from a Rotten Belle (1 inch range).  According to pages 43 and 44, the Lord could walk away from the Rotten Belle, because it is not within the Belle's engagement range.  But could the Lord charge a different model?  It says that engagement goes both ways, if an enemy model is within a model's engagement range, both the enemy and the model are engaged with each other.  And, obviously, you can't charge if you are engaged.

 

Based on that reading, I'm tempted to say the Lord can walk away, but not charge?  Which is intuitively silly to me.  Is that right?

[The Godlyness]

You have it right. If one of you is engaged your both engaged so no charge. But since you are not in their engagement range you can freely walk away.

Just think that the "seductive" belle is distracting chompy and he is holding out his hand to stay her, so she can't get away but then he drops his hand and frollicks away to torment someone else. When all the bell wanted was company.

[MadmanMSU]

You have it right. If one of you is engaged your both engaged so no charge. But since you are not in their engagement range you can freely walk away.

Just think that the "seductive" belle is distracting chompy and he is holding out his hand to stay her, so she can't get away but then he drops his hand and frollicks away to torment someone else. When all the bell wanted was company.

 

That's....odd. 

 

To further complicate the issue, suppose you replace the Lord with the Hungering Darkness, who has Incorporeal.  Incorporeal allows you to ignore other models when taking move actions.  Can the Darkness charge?  I think it depends on whether or not a charge is considered a "move".  Technically its listed under Tactical Actions in the book, but then so is walking, and both are called a "move" in their rules.

[The Godlyness]

Can't charge while engaged unless you have an abilty that says otherwise.

Like misaki.

[AverageBoss]

The "ignoring other models during move actions" is just that. It can move through other models when moving, everyone else has to go around those models. It does not do anything else.

[MadmanMSU]

Easy mistake.  Incorporeal tells you to ignore other models when taking move actions.  Charge is a move action.  Ergo, you ignore other models when you charge.

[Eyefink]

Also, there's a part in the rules that says things like Flight and Incorporeal are only in effect while moving, but not while you declare an Action. It's specifically geared to address being engaged.

[MadmanMSU]

Also, there's a part in the rules that says things like Flight and Incorporeal are only in effect while moving, but not while you declare an Action. It's specifically geared to address being engaged.

 

That's true, but you can only take disengaging strikes against Walk actions.  Charge is not a walk.

[Mastershake]

That's true, but you can only take disengaging strikes against Walk actions.  Charge is not a walk.

 

A charge action is illegal while engaged though, it cannot be declared in the first place.

[MadmanMSU]

A charge action is illegal while engaged though, it cannot be declared in the first place.

 

Also true.  Which brings us full circle back to the original question regarding the Hungering Darkness.  Since he has incorporeal, he ignores other models when taking move actions.  Such as charge.

[Mastershake]

Also true.  Which brings us full circle back to the original question regarding the Hungering Darkness.  Since he has incorporeal, he ignores other models when taking move actions.  Such as charge.

 

He doesn't ignore models when taking actions:

 

Incorporeal:  This model ignores, and is ignored by, other models and terrain during any movement or push.

 

He only ignores it during movement and pushes.  The charge cannot be declared while engaged unless you can be moving or being pushed while also declaring doing another action which is currently impossible and therefore not relevant to the discussion at hand.

[AverageBoss]

Incorporeal does not let you charged while engaged. But you can use it to move through models you are engaged with (or any other models for that matter). The main rules say that you cannot charge while engaged. Nowhere in the rules for Incorporeal does it say you do not count as being engaged, only that you ignore other models when taking move actions, meaning that you can move through them and NOTHING else.

[MadmanMSU]

He doesn't ignore models when taking actions:

 

Incorporeal:  This model ignores, and is ignored by, other models and terrain during any movement or push.

 

He only ignores it during movement and pushes.  The charge cannot be declared while engaged unless you can be moving or being pushed while also declaring doing another action which is currently impossible and therefore not relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

 

Hmmm....  That makes sense.