New to 'the hoff'

[EnternalVoid]

That does sound like a good plan. However, unless I misunderstand the rules, Protect only allows a model to take wounds to its capacity; e.g. if the Guardian's chosen model (let's say Santiago) took twelve damage, the Guardian could take a maximum of nine of those wounds before it was taken out and the remaining wounds would be applied to Santiago. It might be worth clarifying, because if a model can soak wounds beyond its capacity, that is indeed useful against things like the RJ.

Indeed this was actually clariffied a while back by Ratty, I found the big post involved by had problems finding the other, but this should help.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?20500-Wds-Inflicted-Prevented-Suffered&p=234878#post234878

To sum it up, you have to look at how Wds are inflicted and models take them. In Ratty's example it basically works like this; You take Damage. Apply any damage modifiers like Armor. Damage is converted to Wds. Apply any Wd modifiers like Object or Soulstone damage reduction flips. Model suffers the Wds up to their remaining Wds *Model can't suffer 10 wds if they don't have 10 wds left*.

The protect spell breaks this after the applying any Wd modifiers. Rather than taking the Wds inflicted and applying it to the target, it instead passes the entirety of Wds down the Protect. Now here is where Ratty's comments are very important, this is not a 1 wound matter, as in it does not transfer it 1 wd at a time, it is all or none. So you are not tossing one point at a time at the source of protect till it dies leaving the rest for the original source, instead all the Wds are transfered as a lump sum to the source of protect.

So in this case all the wds get tranfered down the protect and you go to the final step, where the model actually suffers the wounds, and in the RJ and Toolkit case, it pretty much explodes as it does not have much life. There is nothing in the protect spell that says the Wds regurgitate back up the original target and based on how Wds are applied it would not suggest this either. I know Ratty had another comment about just this sort of case once but I could not find that one but I think this one should be enough for you.

I will add one more tactical tidbit here to think about. As Hoffman can do a Soulstone reduction flip on this, it means if he takes the hit he can reduce it before passing it off, perhaps to keep a Guardian or Toolkit from being destroyed in the hit.

So, I was looking at Rising Powers yesterday because a couple people here mentioned that the Mannequin was really worth getting for Hoffman. I didn't see anything there that would make me want to pay eight stones for a Performer just so I could get a Mannequin. Did something change between book and card to make it worthwhile? (Like, for example, did they lose the rule saying they can only Link with Showgirls) Or am I just missing something?

Hoffman can ignore the Showgirl only part of their Link if I remember right *as it is not in their Link rule but another Talent that restricts them*. Hoffman can also assimulate Link so he can hook up with models which normally can't be his Ride, like a Watcher. So both Mannequins and hoffman can be linked up with the Ride and all push to where they end up ready for action *Nice on a Watcher in that it can fly and have a high movement but it is not the only option, Wardens and the like are good too*.

Generally the Mannequins are used for the Hoffman Bomb tactic. You get two Mannequin, the Toolkit, and what ever construct is your ride or link, and get close. You got 4 constructs on you for his sort of blast spell Open Circuits. The Mannequin is already slow so you can use them to make Hoffman fast. Between him and his Totem you can launch alot of Open Circuits at a target. Also thanks to the Mannequin and performers, you have 4 activations you can use before your Ride moves you into position, so you can try to out wait your opponent before launching this attack as their is a dely between the ride and Hoffman. But even if they kill your Ride or something, unless they kill more you still have plenty for a nasty Open Circuit barrage.

This sort of Hoffman likes his Soulstones so is more likely to have close to a full load, as often they will jump on your express once it has unloaded in hopes of shutting it down. The Mannequins are not easy to put down but your Ride and Toolkit might, so they may fall. Hoffman can get the armor of the Mannequins so he can be fairly surviviable, and if he survives long enough for next turn some Fast Machine Puppet attacks from Hoffman can kill many of things in retaliation.

[NeuroFire]

Wow, that is pretty awesome! Makes a lot of sense now. Can he also Assimilate their Object stat, or would that be too good? If he can gain Object, that might make them worth the eight stones they basically cost him.

[Golden]

I don't think he can assimilate object just as he can't assimilate Showgirl, because its a characteristic not a talent or spell.

Why has noone mentioned the Pale Rider? Ive had an awesome time with him for Hoffman.

[EnternalVoid]

Golden has it, you can't assimulate Characteristics. Ya if you could assimulate that he would be one of the most surviviable masters in the game and alot more of his lists would have Manniquins. Using their armor and Object on top of soulstone reduction would make him just rough to drop... well rougher than he can be now.

The thing with the Open Circuit list is to have a variation of the Hoffman norm, one that can leave your opponent surprised and possible leave them unsure what to do. I am not saying one is better than another but the Open Circuit one I think has more natural counters out there. But if you pull it out on an unsuspecting opponent and burn them once with it they will always be wary when you say you are going to play Hoffman.

As for the Pale Rider, to be honest I don't have much exerience with him and no one in our Group has really been fielding him yet. I know what he can do, and I know what he can do for Hoffman as a potiental Ride, but as I don't have his card or seen enough of him I have not really worked how I would go about it, or counter it. He is not unknown but I don't trust myself to be the one to debate him.

[Jonas Albrecht]

There's a bit of nice synergy between the Pale Rider and Hoff, where the Rider's gun heals both of them.