Misaki vs Lilith

[osoi]

@Odin I understand where you are coming from but I believe the entirety of the 10T is going to shake up a lot of the competitive builds for Malifaux.

I wholeheartedly believe we should have this discussion in about 6-12 months as it is going to take a whiel for all the effects of these new models to filter through

[dgraz]

I agree with osoi (should I feel dirty for saying that?).

[Odin1981]

I understand the arguments presented against what I have said. Hopefully we won't have to continue the discussion in the future. People have time to see theories now and plan against it. I just worry that outside of around 6-8 book 1 masters the rest will get backlogged into unplayability in competitive events.

I took around a 3-4 month break from playing the game around 6 months or so ago. The main reason to this was to me since book2 was released the format got very stale. You would often see way too many (imho) 80-90% builds with just slight differances. Maybe it just might be my local meta. But when I came here I saw many people with very similar thoughts that I had in regards to certain type competitive builds.

Book3 helped by giving avatars out and adding a few new lists to the mix but to me outside of a few avatars and a couple of the minions didn't really change too much stuff. I guess you could say it is just that I am concerned that I would like to not go threw another book 2 cycle in that I would like the gamestate to not be ruled by a very few # of crews (say 8-10 out of the possible 30 total masters now considering that 5 henchmen can lead crews also) that are viable and a bunch of have not's that don't get brought out because they cannot compete.

Now I give to all of you that I could be "jumping the shark". But I at least to me don't feel I am giving the impression of "this is the end of the malifaux world". If I came across like that I apologise. I just hope to not have to go threw another 12-18 month cycle where it is very limited choice wise to be viable for competitive settings.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Odin1981

[osoi]

I agree with osoi (should I feel dirty for saying that?).

Maybe, I do wash often though

Odin I dont think you gave out and end of the world vibe I just see Storm of Shadows as probably the best thought out book released so far as far as individual models in the book and how they integrate with what has already been released. I'll focus on mainly Ressers a little here as they are my primary function.

Molly - has gained Yin which gives her crews builds another form of viability when you can have multiple Anathema models and more than just one model that is a little more offensively focussed

Seamus - Yin, Chiaki and even Izamu all build nicely into his crews

Kirai - Izamu in a Kirai crew looks really nice

McMourning - no one I would specifically look at here but not discounting anyone with him

Nicodem - everyone from SoS, they all have different ways of being incorporated into a Nico crew and I can see a place for each and everyone of them under differing circumstances for each.

Edited October 5, 2012 by osoi

[dgraz]

Best book since the first one. Hands down.

[Kadeton]

I guess you could say it is just that I am concerned that I would like to not go threw another book 2 cycle in that I would like the gamestate to not be ruled by a very few # of crews (say 8-10 out of the possible 30 total masters now considering that 5 henchmen can lead crews also) that are viable and a bunch of have not's that don't get brought out because they cannot compete.

I think there are some factors at work there: for starters, a certain proportion of the tournament scene will always be taken up with the flavour of the month. This is compounded by a long release cycle - when the game only gets an update once a year, internet wisdom will quickly solidify the established "best" choices that then dominate the scene for 12 months or so.

Additionally, Book 2 was characterised by Masters who had radically different survival tricks to what had gone before, combined with a plethora of non-living and often wildly undercosted minions. This quickly sidelined certain Masters as non-viable due to their inability to overcome these new challenges.

I don't feel that Book 4 has that problem - the Masters are powerful, but largely quite traditional. Misaki is a good example: she can do tons of damage, arguably dealing more straight-up death than any other model in the game, but she's still built around the meat-and-potatoes core of dealing and receiving damage. She has no particularly sneaky tricks or overwhelming synergy.

Additionally, the Book 4 minions are largely based around patching existing weaknesses in the factions rather than adding to their strengths. Yin is a great example: sure, she's good for Yan Lo, but she also has several ways to make Seamus and Molly (in particular) better able to deal with the opponents they otherwise have trouble with. I think this is the Book 4 mentality across the board, basically - try to add things to the game that make everyone more viable, rather than eclipsing anyone.

That's pretty much where I'm coming from with the lack of concern - I think Book 4 is a very different beast to Book 2, and the designers have really upped their game. I'm happy to revisit the debate in a few months once things have shaken out, though.

[DeleteAccount]

Have to agree that book is a very different beats to 2, which is a good thing.

The other point to mention is speed and tournaments. I know Yan Lo will probably be a beast, but will he be able to win the game by turn 3? That I doubt quite a bit, it's the same problem aRamos had during gencon, he is a very poerful beast but never got to actually get his gears going because of the lack of time. So faster masters will always be better for tournament even if they are made of wet tissue simply because thanks to time they maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. But that has more to do with the format.

[dgraz]

The other point to mention is speed and tournaments. I know Yan Lo will probably be a beast, but will he be able to win the game by turn 3?

Totally agree. I still don't think we will see a lot of non-Kirai Rezzers in tournaments. As I stated, I think Yan Lo is the coolest master of the book and has me considering Rezzers myself (bleh - filthy rezzers), but he has the same problem with tourneys that all the other rezzers do. He wins late game. So he will see a lot of play in casual environments....leagues and looser timed tourneys, but not at the big stuff that follow Gaining Grounds time.

As a more casual than tourney player myself, I'm good with that. Tourneys are not the end-all of a game. I play for fun, and Yan Lo is one of the most fun I think.