Q'iq'el Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 After about a year of playing on Terraclips table, where the grid makes it almost-premeasuring, I can attest random charges are not needed. The game becomes more positional, not less. The thing is both sides are sure of the outcome of the move and treat it as risks vs. benefits assessment rather than guesswork (i.e. with no pre-measuring it usually is "will his model B be able to charge my master if I charge his model A?", while with all the ranges known it becomes "is it worth charging model A with my master, knowing his model B will charge back?"). I believe that so called analysis-paralysis is a matter of certain individuals being prone to it. It will last just as long when you consider the answer to the former question as to the later. Pre-measuring does not change the game much in this aspect. It however promotes movement in such a fashion, that models "cover" each other. Rather than trying not to present opponents with opportunities, players can present the opponents with trade-offs that are not worth it. I think the top-level players could always do that, but pre-measuring opens this way of playing even to a relative novice or casual player. I think people get more bold, take more risks and there is less cagey game-play involved. But this also may be helped by the abundance of cover and hiding places on Terraclips tables. All I can say is Terraclips seem to produce better and faster game. It seems both with the semi-premeasuring they introduce and the multi-level terrain rich environment they provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 If that were the case, you would not have people developing these cheats so widescale. You're either projecting or you have a very low opinion of others. I've been playing for over 10 years, I suck at guessing ranges, and I have never tried any 'measuring cheats'. And a lot of the terrain we use......I built. But I never look at it and go 'well that piece is this long so I must be so far away'. I've also never seen any one of my regular opponents act like they're doing anything of the kind either. So if there isn't even one of these 'wargrogs' at my LGS, maybe it isn't as wide-scale as you're assuming. I was thinking about the random Charge mechanic just last night as regards to adding pre-measuring in Malifaux. Again, not for or against pre-measure. However, if a random charge mechanic were introduced I would probably quit playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I would hate random charge. It would just introduce even MORE uncertainty. I do not, in any way, feel that it is on some way intrinsically tied to pre-measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierowmaniac Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I would hate random charge. It would just introduce even MORE uncertainty. I do not, in any way, feel that it is on some way intrinsically tied to pre-measure. Yep agreed totally. Remember Fantasy and 40K are designed at the core to be dice luck games and random charge is just another reason to see if luck on your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keron Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Having played Warhammer Fantasy before and after Games Workshop introduced pre-measuring I definitely think it has improved the game. It stops potential arguments at crucial points in the game (as others have pointed out in this thread) and has considerably sped up the game in my experience. One thing I have learnt from being able to pre-measure in Warhammer Fantasy is that I am not going to measure everything just because I can. I still use the skills I learnt from before pre-measuring was introduced to judge distances (they haven't completely disappeared afterall) and I've found that pre-measuring has a downside in revealing your plans to your opponent. Personally I think Malifaux could introduce it with no need to change the core rules (I may persuade my fellow gamers to try pre-measuring to see how it plays). Edited July 30, 2012 by Keron spelling and grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've found that pre-measuring has a downside in revealing your plans to your opponent. An excellent point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevorin Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Some good pre-measuring points have been made, making me rethink it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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