Duh, me silly Malifaux player?

[LupusFerreus]

Okay, my local meta (if that word means what I think it means) is beginning to become more Neverborn-focused. I myself own Lilith, there is also a Collodi/Zoraida crew, new guy to Malifaux with Pandora and Dreamer player. I've mostly been playing with Lilith and Lady J/Sonnia against them and it has only just occurred to me that Pandora might be a good choice! How silly is this of me!? I mean, isn't she supposed to counter them?

On a more serious note, I'd like to ask people how well they have found Perdita against specific Neverborn threats. Does she struggle against any specifically? Or is she a good counter (not including player skill) across the board?

Also, how well could my other masters fair? I find them to be okay against the other Arcanist and Resser masters I usually run into.

I have a prototype list to use, however it will require me buying models and I'd like to know if it's any good before I invest. In case changes are suggested, I have Lady J and Sonnia models (box and more) to replace.

My proto "all-comers" list:

Perdita - 6ss pool

Enslaved Nephilim

Nino

Francisco

Santiago

Austringer

Austringer

Both Austringers are there to benefit from Obey/Deliver Orders and target without LoS as they don't have fantastic Wp compared to the Ortegas.

[Ozz]

Not fantastic WP? Instead of having 6 and stubborn they just have 7, its hardly bad:P

But vs NB i would probably say you want some form of mele minion in there otherwise your in trouble when they get close, except maybe against Pandora.

As for who are people good against, Sonia is good because of her blasts, and the range you get from them though if you want to guarantee the cheat you often burn a lot of stones, so imo she is good vs all the masters crews, and the dreamer himself. Not so big on the master take down imo (though i have not used my guild to much y et, so take my words with a grain of salt) Perdita is great for as you said all the WP her models have, and the fact she ignores Padoras WP duel to target her, which makes pandora not so tough And Lady J is just a fun model to hit things with (except big Z due to the negative to hit her)

[LupusFerreus]

Hmm that is a good idea about melee minions. I do have some Witchling Stalkers and Death Marshals, how would they do? It does give me an extra 2 stones to my cache, as from doing some reading I can see that Perdita is ss reliant for shooting.

Edited July 4, 2012 by LupusFerreus

[dgraz]

I play Perdita a lot.

Based on suggestions from Nix in other threads, I've actually started playing without Nino....and I've discovered that Nix is at least mostly right. He is slow so is easily trapped and although the occasional head-shot or trigger happy with him is nice, it doesn't happen enough that I can't get more damage out of someone else.

I feel that the Austringers are somewhat over-rated also. I rarely use them and when I do it is never more than one. They suffer from the same penalties as Nino. Against speedy crews these problems are even worse. Once engaged they aren't great.

I do love Francisco and Santiago though and I can't envision a game with Perdita where I don't take them. Santiago does suffer from the same problem as above where if he is engaged he really stinks but what he brings is worth that risk to me.

Death Marshals are great for their staying power and their guns and I use them often.

Witchling Stalkers are also great for their melee abilities but I have been finding them extremely valuable as tool boxes. The anti-magic bubble is very annoying, Dispel Magic is great. Against melee crews they are very good since even if they die they cause some damage when they go.

If you feel like you need a higher ss cost melee model, I would consider Judge. I don't use him all the time, but every time I have he has performed admirably. He is pretty tough and quick. He has some nice spells that can give him multiple attacks. I actually prefer him over the Executioner.

I rarely use Perdita's soulstones and I often end my games with some still in hand. I only use them for the occasional Obey on an enemy if it's going to benefit me in a big way. I usually just Obey my own crew. I sit on my stones in case she gets engaged by a heavy hitter. 8 Df is fantastic, but 8 Wds is NOT. She can go down to a dedicated assault. I don't think twice about using a ss to raise my Df or Resist flips and if I still get hit I will attempt to Prevent Damage.

I will take shots with her but I don't go out of my way to do so. I usually use her as support. Hero's Gamble is probably one of the best abilities in the game. And against any type of buffing or de-buffing crew Spellbreaker is phenomenal. Huge range and no resist. Bolster Undead? Not this game. Incite and Pacify? Not this game. Being able to Obey your guys into position for strats at end game or for attacks during the game is sweet. Just being able to move Perdita into a threatening position thanks to her speed is very valuable...whether you attack with her next turn or not.

[LupusFerreus]

Thanks, that's really helpful. I haven't taken the Judge much with Lady J, it'll be nice to put him to use. May I ask, how many soulstones do you tend to run with?

[Omenbringer]

Against Collodi (and the Marionettes) Rasputina might be of some help. Freezing the whole lot to terrain really removes a lot of the crews bite.

[dgraz]

Thanks, that's really helpful. I haven't taken the Judge much with Lady J, it'll be nice to put him to use. May I ask, how many soulstones do you tend to run with?

If you don't have much experience with the Judge, try him out. I like him quite a bit. With Lady J and other Death Marshals around and the Cb (Inspiring Swordplay) and damage buffs (Finish the Job) they can give he gets even more disgusting. His spell 'Judged' also comes in quite handy if you run into any spirits. His attack spells are better with Lady J because less of the crew is competing for the :masks that he needs.

With any master I try to run at max stones....just in case. It's such a powerful tool that I think it is foolish to run with less than you can take. But with Perdita I often find that I end games with 2 or 3 unused. So if the list I'm using makes me run with only seven or even six, I really don't worry.

[LupusFerreus]

That seems like a very good combination, Judge with two Death Marshals with Finish The Job. Especially if Perdita can obey them to do that spell rather than have them use an AP in their activation.

[dgraz]

Remember that same-name abilities don't stack. They could both cast Finish the Job but you could only count the bonus from one of them. I'd probably take only one Marshal.

Lots of different combos with Obey there. Take a ranged strike then cast the spell and Obey to charge in.....move in and cast it then Obey Judge to charge in....lots of possibles.

It's not something that you're going to get maximum benefit from all of the time. The Marshals are better at shooting than melee, and Judge can do enough damage on his own that he doesn't necessarily need the help, but when you do get the option and chance to use it, it is nice.

I'd try this list:

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Perdita Ortega

--

8 Pool

Enslaved Nephilim [2ss]

• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Francisco Ortega
  [5ss]
  
  
• Judge
  [7ss]
  
  
• Santiago Ortega
  [7ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  

Or maybe:

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Perdita Ortega

--

6 Pool

Enslaved Nephilim [2ss]

• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Exorcist
  [6ss]
  
  
• Francisco Ortega
  [5ss]
  
  
• Judge
  [7ss]
  
  
• Santiago Ortega
  [7ss]
  
  

[LupusFerreus]

Cheers, they're roughly what I've been looking at.

I had good luck with a practise game this evening with a mate. I took Perdita, Santiago, Francisco, 2 Stalkers and Nino - only because I was against Rasputina and I wanted to out range her and I didn't want to risk the Judge. I managed to Alpha Strike his Gunsmith and successfully defend against a Joss (boosted) thanks to Df 8 and a 13 :masks. Francisco didn't do much but Santiago did well with 4 wounds and I was mostly playing for Reconnoiter. All in all, I really like their synergy. Also, Witchling Stalkers made good deterrent!

[dgraz]

Francisco is best as a counter attacker. He is quite fragile so don't put him out front. He is an excellent Obey target if something gets in contact with Santiago to help get him out of melee...Obey charge that foe with Francisco....if needed then you could Flurry with him.

Have fun with them.

[Boscotopia]

When I play Perdita, I never take more than 5 SS and tend to keep it to 3-4 if it means getting the minions I want.

I say pass on the totem with her - those two SS can go toward a Watcher (greatness with wings) or even pay toward the Brutal effigy or another Witchling S./Death M.

[LupusFerreus]

Well I plan to buy the Hoffman box later (to complete my Guild masters and also robots are cool) so that'll give me both the Watcher and Guardian to use. I'll get the Totem as well to give me all the options. I didn't take it in my smaller 30pt game against Rasputina and I didn't miss it. Can you Obey constructs? I'm unsure on what you can't use it on, is there anything other than models with Immune to Influence and Duty?

[Headcase2]

When I play Perdita, I never take more than 5 SS and tend to keep it to 3-4 if it means getting the minions I want.

I say pass on the totem with her - those two SS can go toward a Watcher (greatness with wings) or even pay toward the Brutal effigy or another Witchling S./Death M.

Your totem reduces your dependence on :masks to cast Obey. I never leave home without when I'm playing Perdita. To make the most of your Obeys try and get charges out of them (double efficiency) if you can. Getting an Executioner in position for a good slicing is so much fun (and the executioner model is the whole reason I started playing guild in the first place).

Also, cache beats minions every time in my opinion.

[Boscotopia]

Your totem reduces your dependence on :masks to cast Obey. I never leave home without when I'm playing Perdita. To make the most of your Obeys try and get charges out of them (double efficiency) if you can. Getting an Executioner in position for a good slicing is so much fun (and the executioner model is the whole reason I started playing guild in the first place).

Also, cache beats minions every time in my opinion.

I am glad you like that style but having one less minion than you possibly could is putting yourself at an activation and AP disadvantage and will force you to work your Master harder than she has to work. Perdita with 5 SS and a Watcher will almost always be at an advantage over your 8 SS Perdita solo. Putting all your eggs in one basket makes that basket a big target and those SS suddenly just became survival stones. I prefer to spread the threat and keep those stones initiative and offense stones...... two different ways - neither better than the other, just different approaches needing different strategies.

[dgraz]

How many stones you end up running with will ultimately come from experience and your personal play-style. You'll try it many different ways. I personally almost always use the Neph totem, but I have been tempted many times by the Brutal Effigy....having the Healing and a magic weapon in the crew are pretty inviting.

[LupusFerreus]

I agree that neither is better, it will all come down to my local meta. For instance if I go up against aSeamus I'd love to take the Watcher but against a living enemy perhaps the totem instead. Yes effigies, I gotta get me some of those!

Just a quick question - how do you rate Abuela? She has heal too, and shotgun wedding. Could work well with Judge.

[nurglez]

Pretty sure shotgun wedding doesn't work on unique models, and Judge is unique (if i'm wrong feel free to correct me, I'm at work and don't have my cards with me).

I've used Granny a few times, and apart from making the executioner part of the family she didn't do much, as she is pretty slow, but I love the feel of her, a little old lady hobbling around and flying backwards every time she fires her shotgun...

[LupusFerreus]

You're right nurglez, it's non-Unique. Boo! Her heal only has a range of 3", is that a bit dangerous for blast effects?

[dgraz]

I've seen some people that like her with the Totem and Perdita for a super Obey team. I haven't used her much because she wants the :masks in a crew that already relies pretty heavily on that suit and if I'm going to take a model that is going to compete for that suit, it's going to be someone that can bring some pain....like Judge. The :masks thing is the one reason why I don't include Judge in more lists with the Ortegas.

So we have Perdita, Santiago, Nino, Abuela, and Judge all competing for that :masks. I personally wouldn't take more than 3 of them at one time. Francisco also has a trigger off of it on his gun but I use him as more of a melee guy so I personally don't count him.

[LupusFerreus]

I already know what that's like with my Lilith crew. So many people, so few :masks to share. I'd prefer them on Perdita + Totem/Judge + Santiago. If not the Judge, who would be a good replacement. Executioner? Exorcist? More low point minions? I suppose it all depends on the matchup.

[dgraz]

My Perdita crew is 14 SS. Perdita, Ens. Neph, Santiago, Francisco. After that it depends on the strat, the terrain, and my opponent. It's tough to really go wrong with a lot of the Guild minions....Marshals, Witchlings, Austringers, Judge, Executioner, Peacekeeper, Guardian....(I could name more I'm sure)...are all good and can really shine under the right circumstances.

[nurglez]

The most recent 35ss crew I have been taking is: Perdita, nino, executioner, Francisco, Santiago and the Brutal effigy. Leaving me with a cache of 7. (or I can waste an ss and take Perdita's totem).

While Nino and the executioner fight over crows, I try and keep my mask for obey when needed, or a trigger happy's from Nino or Santiago.

I didn't really think about checking if a model's card reliance clashed with others, but I'm getting there

[Wulfen]

Don't discount Sonnia against Neverborn. She works very well in certain strategies, and even though she is touted as anti-Arcanist, she has some good tools against Neverborn as well.

[LupusFerreus]

Any tips, specifically at Pandora or Collodi/Zoraida? I can't see her doing better than Perdita. Isn't that the benefit of having all the Masters? It's my intention to eventually, I like how they cross-over in minions.