Aramoro Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 We've just started playing Malifaux with Colette as my first Master and getting into how to play her and it's fun, I picked up the Rising Powers book to have a look and a came across Hamelin who looks like fun. So I though I would give him a go as I'm basically a terrible human being. Currently we're playing small games, 25 SS so i'm Trying to work out what the balance should be between holding stones and having a crew to use. My first thought was :- Outcasts Crew - 25 - Scrap Hamelin the Plagued -- 3 Pool Malifaux Rat [2ss]Malifaux Rat [2ss]Nix, the Bull Terrier [7ss]Rat Catcher [5ss]The Stolen [3ss]The Stolen [3ss] but that leaves me with a very low Pool, so perhaps drop both rats for another The Stolen, give me one more stone in my pool. It's tricky to know coming from Colette where I'll regularly have 7 SS pool and use them for everything. Is Nix just too expensive and better to have another The Stolen, Rat and 2 spare stones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Go with stolen or rats, not both - would be my advice for a small game. The small cache isn't so bad with Hammy - just don't expose him unnecessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Keeping ing mind I've plyaed very little Hamelin, and played him in 25SS only once, my crew was Outcasts Crew - 25 - Scrap Hamelin the Plagued -- 5 Pool Malifaux Rat [2ss]Malifaux Rat [2ss]Malifaux Rat [2ss]Malifaux Rat [2ss]Malifaux Rat [2ss]Nix, the Bull Terrier [7ss]The Stolen [3ss] One Stolen for security in case I made a mistake causing Hamelin to die when i didn't want him to, Nix for his general awesomeness, and the potential to get a ratcatcher once I'd killed an ennemy model or two/sacced a Stolen or two. No need to start with a Ratcatcher, and with 5 rats to start with you can outactivate your opponent quite easily on the first turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshimartian Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I'd say take more stolen, you can always use them to sac for your abilities. And because of Inevitable Fate, you get a rat out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramoro Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I knew Nix could summon Rat with Severe damage on his attack but I didn't know he could summon a Ratcatcher, I must have missed that somewhere. More Stolen, less Rats, that seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 No, Nix can't summon Ratcatchers (dang, that would be OP XD ) Rats can sac three of their own to get a Ratcatcher instead ((1)Rat Problem), Yeah, it does mean you're using 6SS worth of models to get a 5SS model, but considering you can do that any time with a rat which hasn't activated yet (as long as you place your rats right) and that the Ratcatcher can do so much for the rats, I think it's a viable strategy, even moreso with the potential for outactivation without the cheesy self-killing rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Don't start with any Stolen, you're not going to die turn one and can summon one for free. As a guide, I'd consider this for 25ss - Hamelin with 4ss Wretch 2ss Nix 7ss Rat Catcher 5ss Rat 2ss Rat 2ss Terror Tot 3ss But it REALLY depends on your strategy and schemes - for example if you've got Treasure Hunt you want a Student of Conflict and 2x Guild Hounds in there. Hope it helps, and if you have specific schemes in mind let me know and I'll give you some ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramoro Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Well I played a quick game the other day there against my friends Sonjia Creed and I have to say it went very well/badly depending on your perspective. It was a simple 'Destroy the Evidence' and I had Bodyguard and Hamelins specific scheme. My opponent conceded at the start of turn 3 when he lost the Initiative flip and was about to have Sonjia eaten by Rats. This lead us to believe we were doing something wrong, The sequence of events was something like Rats move up, Writhing Mass to get close, Rat Catcher kills them all and Voreacious Rats to get more, they Writhing mass forwards around a Witchling Stalker and Impetuous for the before attacking.They kill the Witchling Stalker who explodes Voracious Rats kicks in and they surge forwards again onto a poor Franciso Ortega who is also devoured by the Writhing Mass/Impetuous/Attacking. That was my bottom of turn 1, turn 2. Is that normal? How do you play against that, is it a simple case of just running away from the Rat Swarm or wading thought it to punch Hamlin in his stupid face? The thing is I really like Hamelin but I don't want games to be an entirely negative play experience for my opponent. Edited May 16, 2012 by Aramoro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argentbadger Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 I am the Guild player from Aramoro’s game. We spoke about this for a while after the game, and my concern comes down to: killing the rats is pointless because they respawn and reactivate. However, you can’t ignore them as they also kill you with a thousand cuts and you can’t cheat to avoid it (as that gives Hamelin a chance to get good cards in hand). I think in this case some rats had up to four activations, and it seems to me that there is no upper limit. I’d like to have been able to shoot things up a bit first but the range of my guns is 10” and rats can cover that with only two activations. For reference, my crew was Sonnia Criid (+8 soulstones), 2 Witchling Stalkers, 2 Death Marshalls and Francisco Ortega. This wasn’t particularly selected to ‘counter’ Hamelin, or even really to do with the strategy; I am still trying to learn what things do. I thought (in retrospect) that the Witchling Stalkers would be good since they can Dispel Magic to get rid of the Insignificant and have a magic weapon with which to hurt Nix. We are both pretty new at the game, so Aramoro wasn’t using particularly cheap tricks; I imagine that you could spend ages just having rats kill each other until I run out of activations for a start. Anyway, later on it occurred to me that a decent option would be to take Nino and start to Headshot important models (i.e. Nix and any rat catchers) until Hamelin has no cards left, all the while avoiding the temptation to cheat. I’d be keen to play against Hamelin again when I’m not tired and whiny. It was certainly frustrating watching a tide of rats run over my Witchling Stalker, get blown up, then all reappear (plus one) and repeat the trick with Francisco Ortega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Anyway, later on it occurred to me that a decent option would be to take Nino and start to Headshot important models (i.e. Nix and any rat catchers) until Hamelin has no cards left, all the while avoiding the temptation to cheat. This is one of the easiest ways to beat Hamelin, kudos for working it out - you'd be amazed at how few (if any) people do *wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 This is one of the easiest ways to beat Hamelin, kudos for working it out - you'd be amazed at how few (if any) people do *wink* I have had no loses against Hamelin by doing this. VERY select cheating and starve him of cards. And never forget a Mature hates to be Obeyed,lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Executioner is a nice way to slow the swarm as well - he can pretty reliabley take down a rat to heal himself on slow to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Having enough terrifying stuff helps too - get the rats away from a rat catcher to Hamlin and things can be easier too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Just to clarify, I meant kudos on the headshot approach - the no cheating thing itself isn't that bad and you'll usually come of worse * wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argentbadger Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thanks. There's some food for thought here, hopefully I can apply it usefully in game. For the executioner, wouldn't he just get bogged down in an endless cycle, i.e. he dies, uses Slow to Die to kill a rat (healing himself up with Loves the Job) then the rat reappears and bites him and (eventually) he has enough blight tokens on him for this to be a one-shot? Or does this not actually occur in practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramoro Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Well a Rat could only ever do 3 wounds to the Executioner as you only get +1Wd from Blight Tokens. It would seem that he is someone not to target with Rats as it would be pretty futile. But then he's also got Decapitate so got to be wary of going near him with Hamelin. In fact I don't like the look of Executioners at all, I recommend not taking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 ^^ His point was he'd get stacked up with Blight Counters and then become a prime target for bleeding disease. 2p worth - as a Hamelin player I like Guild crews who take Executioners because I can obedience/pipes your other Guild models to charge him and then deliberately fail their moral duals. Fun, fun, fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Wow, that's some serious n00bsaucery to leave leave an obey target with LoS to the executioner but not in melee range - oy. Also, unless he has a face-card on top of his discard - don't be terrified of cheating if the duel is vital. It's better for him to draw a random card than to lose a key duel. Another minion guild can consider is Santiago Ortega - when he is in bloodlust mode he can pretty easily put down a ratcatcher with full health without having to cheat despite his armor 2. I think the hammy list to fear in super small games is the grow list - at least if you are playing a strat where you need models alive at the end of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Wow, that's some serious n00bsaucery to leave leave an obey target with LoS to the executioner but not in melee range - oy. As obedience can be cast multiple times (unlike obey) it's quite easy to get this off. And don't forget an executioner is a LOT of points to lose in one hit to Hamelin (who is much, much faster so will hit you before you hit him) in a 25ss game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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