zKoTTe Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Avatar Hoffman a beatstick made out of paper and crap. http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Avatar+Hoffman I really want to like Avatar Hoffman (AH), but it's like the rules and stats wont let me , his AP's makes no sense, his one single trick is an (All) action, that requires him to be in the middle of the opponents crew. With the extra drawback of taking extra damage from . At the same time is he too stationary, and have to choose between mobility or survival. "Pull my finger" offers the following 2 advices You can use Insinuate Will to stop an opposing non-Master Construct from Cheating Cards effectively, but this ability is only likely to be useful if your opponent doesn't have many minions left.Remember that Avatar Hoffman loses most of his other ability when he Manifests, including Dampening, Drawn to Metal, Maintain Machines, Perfect Machine, Protected by Machines, Tap Power, Machine Pupper, and Combat Mechanic. His synergy with friendly Constructs gets a lot weaker, so you may not want to Manifest unless your friendly Constructs are gone.So whats he really saying is that AH works best when you and your opponent only have your masters left... My idea to fix these problems are quite simple, I only move some stuff around and adds two new but standard rules. Move the following around: "Amalgated Form" Speed: Flight, Cg 6 - to stats and Abilities Survival: Armor +2, Regeneration 1 (maybe adjust it a little bit) to stats and Abilities Add the following to "Amalgated Form": (Melee Expert +1), (Nimble +1) Make "Do Not Go Softly" an (2) Action If you do the this, will you get a model that fits the rules, is not useless and makes the Avatar to a beatstick, that actually is one What do you think? Edited May 14, 2012 by zKoTTe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 The impression that I get is this: Avatar Hoffman is intended to be used if your other Constructs are all dead and you want Hoffman to go out like a G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeLapse Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) The impression that I get is this: Avatar Hoffman is intended to be used if your other Constructs are all dead and you want Hoffman to go out like a G. Well if you ask me Hoffman is better off going around grabbing scrap markers and using detonate scrap to kill those models that killed yours if everything died then manifesting. No Hoffman avatar has some massive flaws in my mind, First off he does not have a +1 action without giving up all his protection, flight or Armor. Not really worth the risk. Grabbing abilities by killing models could be fantastic and a way for him to augment his bad qualities but avatars come around turn 3 or 4 for Hoffman so that means most of the game is already over so farming for skills to assimilate is too time consuming so late game. It is hard to see the avatars usefulness in any game, its lack of an underlining theme weakens it the most. Avatar Hoffman has no real play style that I can see, it’s not a beat stick because really, its damage on its sword is nice but it will take two swings to really kill something. He does okay at range attacks but with CB of 5 it kinda lack luster. For no real reason at all he gives constructs +1 armor if they are holding hands with another. He has the Assimilate idea where he can make things into constructs and take abilities but like I said it comes too late game. Then there is suppress edict is useless, really since you have to use another 0 action to make something a construct. insinuate will is too hard to get off to be useful, first you need a mask, next you need to make an enemy model a construct and then you have to have been able to get to it within 8 inches, why not take a swing at him or shoot him instead? It’s a case of too many cooks and this is just too many ideas that do not form a working model in my mind. Let’s look at what he loses, He loses set armor; he can copy any of his models armor so he loses his ability to take armor. He loses his 4 actions, 2 zero and/or 3 AP with fast. He loses his ability to finish his scheme He loses his ability to control other constructs He loses his ability to make the peacekeeper a useable model with maintain machine and since the other model that could help the peace keeper is a totem he loses that as well. He loses his combat spells, and his healing spell He loses his ability to use scrap tokens He loses his ability to not have blasts affect him and models near him in fact he still needs models near him for his CA boost but now Blasts hurt him more so he dares not bunch up for fear of death. He loses perfect machine so the ARamos can now take control of him using overdrive. It would be funny if ARamos made him kill his own peacekeeper then assimilated one of its bad abilities just to mess with the Hoffman player. But his biggest loss is focus, he just does not seem to have any focus left, with Hoffman you know what to do with him after reading his card, keep constructs near him, use him to boost you other constructs attacks. With his avatar you just don’t know right off the bat what to do with him, you could sit back and shoot things with your range of 10 and you CB of 5 but you will struggle to hit things and you leave yourself in charging range of things, too exposed but u can get a range expert and try to make it worth it. But this thread is about how to make him somewhat useful and I think there is one way. If during the game you weekend a key model that has a + 1 fast or even melee master ability then you could manifest and then use the ranged master ability to try and kill that model, using any amount of Soul stones to do it, then assimilate it, that’s what I think he has to, ignore his other abilities and go for the Assimilate It is too end game for it to really be effective in making Hoffman epic but it can keep him going by grabbing +1 abilities and other traits like armor, flight what have you. I think it is what he could become that explains why he was made weaker than the other avatars. I am now thinking after writing all the things I don’t like about the Avatar, that I want to play him in games just to try out to see if the assimilate ideas would work. I have a thing for the underdogs and though the Hoff is not under powered as a master his avatar compared to the others is and this kinda makes me want to find his strong points if he has any. I hate killing my own models for things but if i had a warden that is already almost dead then grabbing Relentless wouldn't be a bad idea and then i could discard a card to get a walk, so 2ap for manafesting, 1 ranged shoot, then discard to make a walk into safety could be a good starting move though it hurts losing your master on turn 3 or 4 to do this. Edited April 26, 2012 by TimeLapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeth1313 Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I think that while Hoffman's avatar is weaker than most it is for good reason. Throughout normal gameplay he is entirely dependent on his friendly constructs. His avatar is not. He goes from a crippled casting unit to a moderate fighter. He becomes much more independent, something that late in the game can be a big deal for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Mind you, I'm the person who wrote the PullMyFinger wiki article on C. Hoffman, and it's all Theoryfaux. I agree that he really doesn't seem to stand up as strong as most Avatars, or as tough as pre-Avatar Hoffman. Maybe he works out better in play. I sure hope so. Or maybe he'll get errata before he's released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zKoTTe Posted May 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) I think that while Hoffman's avatar is weaker than most it is for good reason. Throughout normal gameplay he is entirely dependent on his friendly constructs. His avatar is not. He goes from a crippled casting unit to a moderate fighter. He becomes much more independent, something that late in the game can be a big deal for him. But look at his illustration, he looks like Optimus Prime but fights like a crippled poodle. If Wyrd want to sell this model, then they have to change his rules. Otherwise the only thing he will be good for is an Iron Warrior Deamon Prince, Scrap Counters or an expensive paperweight of course. All the other avatars does at least resemble their former selves in some way or another, but Hoffman gets a crappy toy robot that cripples the rest of the crew when it enters play, I would rather have a Malifaux Child as my totem, than paying 2SS for this Avatar state. Edited May 14, 2012 by zKoTTe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodPhule Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 But he looks so good in the artwork - possibly my favorite looking avatar when I saw the book and I can't wait to see what they do with the model. I Just want him to be awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrosion Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Is Avatar Hoffman vulnerable to dissassemble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zKoTTe Posted May 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I Just want him to be awesome Or at least playable I have the same problem, i looove his concept and that's why I'm so furious about this retarded tin-can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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