Red Joker and Armor

[EnternalVoid]

Quick question as I could not find it on the search, or at least to this exact question.

Our group is rather new to Malifaux as a whole so as a group we are still getting a grasp on all the rules and everything as a whole. Anyhow the question I have is concerning when the Red Joker gets flipped on a damage flip and how it interacts with armor. There was a disagreement in the group on how this works.

One side stands that when you get the red joker *and no black joker in the damage flip*, you flip another card and combine the two damage. So severe and if the second is Moderate you add the severe and moderate together for total damage. Then you apply any additional damage from triggers and then any reduction such as armor. So if severe was 4 and moderate was 3, no trigger damage, it would be 7 damage reduced by the opponents armor.

The other side wants to treat the red joker and the additional flip as two seperate damage. So things like Armor reduce the severe from the Red Joker and then reduce the damage done by the extra flip as well.

[marshimartian]

First group has it.

Severe+ another dmg flip is exactly that, not to be interpreted as severe ' then' another damage flip

[Lucidicide]

First group has it.

Severe+ another dmg flip is exactly that, not to be interpreted as severe ' then' another damage flip

+1

[LordZombie]

Well, we got that one figured out. Point to you sir!

[EnternalVoid]

Thanks you all for the quick responses

[Requirement]

and in reference to triggers (I am thinking in particular of Ryle's trigger that let's him perform another damage flip) they play out as a separate attack, being affected by armor separately from the initial damage total.

So it plays out as such:

Red joker + second flip - armor = wds taken

followed by a new instance of flipping

trigger damage flip - armor = wds taken

I just point this out because my group has messed this up so many times and really struggled to get our heads around it for some reason. Also, always keep in mind that wds and dmg aren't the same.

[Kadeton]

and in reference to triggers (I am thinking in particular of Ryle's trigger that let's him perform another damage flip) they play out as a separate attack, being affected by armor separately from the initial damage total.

So it plays out as such:

Red joker + second flip - armor = wds taken

followed by a new instance of flipping

trigger damage flip - armor = wds taken

I just point this out because my group has messed this up so many times and really struggled to get our heads around it for some reason. Also, always keep in mind that wds and dmg aren't the same.

As far as I'm aware, this was ruled to all be a single source of damage, actually. So if Ryle hits his trigger and flips the Red Joker, he makes two additional flips and adds them to the total.

I thought it worked the way you think it does as well initially, but there's a ruling somewhere on these boards - I can't find anything with the new search function, but someone else might be able to dig it up.