Csonti Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Last night this situation arrised: Pere cast Oopsie and Kirai and some Seishin was in range of the pulse. All of the models suffered enough damage to get killed. Question: can Kirai use Spirit Sheath to dump-off the damage to a Seishin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 magicpockets Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 No. Everyone takes damage simultaneously so there are no Seshin there to take Kirais damage (they die at the same time she takes damage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Csonti Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yeah, that was one of the interpretations. The other way of thinking: you suffer damage before you die, Kirai dumps off damage when she would suffer the effect, at this time the Seishin couldn't be killed since it is just getting its share of damage just like Kirai. Reading the rules I can't fully support either of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 JayBarlekamp Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 It has been ruled on before by a RM. I'm being lazy and I don't feel like searching for it, but Magicpockets is correct (as is usually the case.) If no one else bothers to search, or a RM hasn't chimed in, I may feel more charitable after some coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Csonti Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 It has been ruled on before by a RM. I'm being lazy and I don't feel like searching for it, but Magicpockets is correct (as is usually the case.) If no one else bothers to search, or a RM hasn't chimed in, I may feel more charitable after some coffee. I have searched for this before puting up a new thread. The best call was this thread where you also happen to mention that "this hase been ruled before" but sadly also without a link. The last post there contains a quote from Ratty's more than one year old post. The problem is that it covers a different scenario with blasts and stuff (and Ratty was not an RM at that time anyway). So indeed I would need your charitability and search-fu to show me the thread where the mentioned official ruling lies. Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Keltheos Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I have searched for this before puting up a new thread. The best call was this thread where you also happen to mention that "this hase been ruled before" but sadly also without a link. The last post there contains a quote from Ratty's more than one year old post. The problem is that it covers a different scenario with blasts and stuff (and Ratty was not an RM at that time anyway). So indeed I would need your charitability and search-fu to show me the thread where the mentioned official ruling lies. Thx! Don't worry about your search-fu, I'll respond. Models caught in a Pulse or Blast are affected by it simultaneously. Kirai couldn't use her Spirit Sheath to dump the damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 JayBarlekamp Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks keltheos. funny thing is, I found a thread from last July and it had the same ruling in it from a RM. What was funny about it was that it was started by Csonti. It was started about rats but the whole "all damage in a blast is simultaneous" thing was cited there. http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?22684 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Vmag Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 To expand on what Keltheos stated and take this in a slightly different direction... If Collodi were targeted by a blast he would still be able to switch the target to a Marionette correct? I think this would be true since Sheath (if I recall correctly) deals with 'damage' and Collodi's ability is 'target' which would be prior to damage. That sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 von Clausewitz Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 To expand on what Keltheos stated and take this in a slightly different direction... If Collodi were targeted by a blast he would still be able to switch the target to a Marionette correct? I think this would be true since Sheath (if I recall correctly) deals with 'damage' and Collodi's ability is 'target' which would be prior to damage. That sound about right? Incorrect. Pulses do not have targets, therefore their effects cannot be transferred to a marionette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kega Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Would like some clarification on the timing of spirit sheath. The wording on the card seems to imply that the effect is transferred before it's begun to resolve, in which case none of the seishin would have taken damage yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Vmag Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 @von Right, that's why I was asking about blasts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 von Clausewitz Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 @von Right, that's why I was asking about blasts Indeed you were! I should really pay more attention to what I read. Either way, the same principle applies. Blasts affect an area of the board, they do not target models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Vmag Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Hmmm, yep. That totally makes sense. I overlooked the fact that the model that is targeted by a strike with blast damage isn't actually effected by the blast marker(s) since it already had to have been targeted and hit by the strike to get the blasts off in the first place. I retract my question Edited February 16, 2012 by Vmag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Csonti Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 funny thing is, I found a thread from last July and it had the same ruling in it from a RM. What was funny about it was that it was started by Csonti. It was started about rats but the whole "all damage in a blast is simultaneous" thing was cited there. http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?22684 I think you misunderstand to point of this thread. It's not about the timing of pulse (or blast) damage. It is simultaneous but that in itself will not answer anything here. The difference between the linked and this thread is huge. The Seishin's ability kicks in when Kiari would suffer damage while Voracious Rat's activates when the model or the rats around are killed. A very different scenario. Would like some clarification on the timing of spirit sheath. The wording on the card seems to imply that the effect is transferred before it's begun to resolve, in which case none of the seishin would have taken damage yet. And this is just what I was talking about. While I'm glad that Kel informed us about how RAI this works, it is still unclear to me what is the logic behind the answer ruleswise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kega Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 The Seishin's ability kicks in when Kiari would suffer damage Spirit sheath doesn't transfer damage, it applies the entire effect of a successful attack to the seishin instead of Kirai. I'd assumed that this meant you elect to spirit sheath after the resist flip but before spell resolution, so I'm confused about what's actually stopping you from using it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Csonti Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Spirit sheath doesn't transfer damage, it applies the entire effect of a successful attack to the seishin instead of Kirai. I'd assumed that this meant you elect to spirit sheath after the resist flip but before spell resolution, so I'm confused about what's actually stopping you from using it here. You wording is more precise but we are talking about the same thing. In the example of the original post the entire effect is: Kirai suffers some points of damage. And that effect (suffering damage) can be transfered to a Seishin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Lucidicide Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 You wording is more precise but we are talking about the same thing. In the example of the original post the entire effect is: Kirai suffers some points of damage. And that effect (suffering damage) can be transfered to a Seishin. What happens when multiple things happen simultaneously? I honestly don't remember. If the active player chooses the order (because they can't actually happen at the same time), then he could pick all the Seishin to suffer damage first, leaving Kirai with no options to shunt off the damage. In any event, things are still resolved in an order even when simultaneous. As such, this might give the "backing" to the ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Csonti
Last night this situation arrised:
Pere cast Oopsie and Kirai and some Seishin was in range of the pulse. All of the models suffered enough damage to get killed. Question: can Kirai use Spirit Sheath to dump-off the damage to a Seishin?
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