Ortega's 35 ss tourney list

[mcmourning san]

Since starting this thread I have found a better way to phrase the question I have actually wanted to ask which is; which models do you consider staples when playing perdita in a 35ss cache game and which are your flexible options. After playing a few games I feel that a relatively standard base list I take is

Perdita

Von Schill

Enslaved Nephilim

keeping the rest open for flex, typically 3 stalkers & Guardian for arcanist, 3 marshals & Guardian for ressurectionist and guild, Nino//Santiago//Francisco for neverborn. As for the outcast match up I'm not sure and could use some advice

The tournament is:

fixed masters

One round 35ss

Assigned strategies every game

Pick your own schemes

meta is variable I've seen: justice, rasputina, lilith, zoraida, sonnia, LCB

Edited February 20, 2012 by mcmourning san

[nilus]

Okay some thoughts

Is this an attempt at an all comers list, or a specific strategy or scheme? This list is a very slow(other then Perdita) so things like treasure hunt or line in the sand will be difficult.

Also I would consider what target I want to use Shotgun wedding on. I feel Abuela isn't worth her points unless she hands that out. Mercs are not a great choice and the Neph is not a valid target since its unique.

I would drop one of the Mask dependent Ortegas(Santiago or Nino) and consider an alternative model to take that can be familied but not eat up those masks you will need for Obeys. Maybe the Executioner or an Austringer.

[micahwc]

Also I fail to see the melee ability you mentioned. The totem is not horrible, and the desperate mercs are okay. I'm not a huge fan of francisco, though I can see why you would want to include him. I think there are some better choices for melee minions, though I will grant that they are more expensive.

Not sure if it matters but a witchling stalker is cheap, good at melee, can shoot if it needs to, and brings a magic weapon with it. I think I would drop the mercs and replace with a witchling. It can be wedded to the family. For more objective based missions I would also want to maybe think about either watchers or guild hounds.

[Cadilon]

I think thats a good base crew, with some tweaking.

1. You seem pretty excited about Obey. Its a good spell, but more difficult to get off than you might think. Of the 3 possible castings per round, you'll get it off once or maybe even twice. Its a high cast at 14 and dependent on :maskss, which neither Perdita nor Abuela has built in. On top of that, if I have a high :masks, I am saving it for either Nino's or (less often) Santiago's trigger happy. Like I said, nice spell, but don't build a crew around it.

2. Remember, Abuela can only use Shotgun Wedding once per encounter, so only one of those models you mentioned can be made Family. I am sure you saw that, but the way your sentence is worded, I wanted to make sure. And I wouldn't use it on the Nephlim. I don't think its unique, but it's companioned with Perdita already.

3. I haven't used Desperate Mercs, and frankly don't have their stats at hand to compare, so I can't really speak to them. I understand the one more activation, but I would look hard at replacing them with a Death Marshal, which is a pretty nice model.

4. This might just be me, but I have never, ever, had Francisco pay for himself. Perhaps its just the way I play him, but its to the point that I won't take him. I'd rather have a Death Marshall and another stone. Your mileage may vary.

So, if this is my crew, I am dropping Francisco and the 2 mercs and taking two death marshalls and another SS. If you are excited about Obey, definitely keep the Nephilim because of the built in mask in its CA. Keep Abuela for a few games to get the feel for her. You might find it easier to cast obey than I do.

[Brettqpublic]

I think thats a good base crew, with some tweaking.

1. You seem pretty excited about Obey. Its a good spell, but more difficult to get off than you might think. Of the 3 possible castings per round, you'll get it off once or maybe even twice. Its a high cast at 14 and dependent on :maskss, which neither Perdita nor Abuela has built in. On top of that, if I have a high :masks, I am saving it for either Nino's or (less often) Santiago's trigger happy. Like I said, nice spell, but don't build a crew around it.

4. This might just be me, but I have never, ever, had Francisco pay for himself. Perhaps its just the way I play him, but its to the point that I won't take him. I'd rather have a Death Marshall and another stone. Your mileage may vary.

Masks are a premium card to an Ortega centric crew. As such I agree with the above posters assessment that you're not going to get off as many Obeys as you're hoping for. Plus, you had better have a very good reason to trade 1 action from Perdita to give someone else one action or even a charge. That woman is a wrecking ball.

I've gotten good use out of Francisco action as a bodyguard for Nino. He's cheap enough to keep back and packs enough punch and a high CB to clear out most things that can reach Nino.

[mcmourning san]

I am definately starting to get an understanding that Obey is not a primary source and should be used sparingly saving high masks for trigger happy's. In addition, I was wondering how many stones does Perdita typically need to stay alive, I know her 8 DF is impressive, but how many is a good starting number?

[col_blitzwell]

for her i play with 2-5ss. If you still want to stay in the family idea then for 3ss you can get Latigo Pistolero. Francisco i find situational. Abuela (7ss) i dont find worth her points but that just me + i dislike her model. if i were you i would drop Abuela(7ss) both mercs and put in a Pale Rider. but if you want lots of activations i would do drop Abuela(7ss) both mercs and put in 3 Latigo Pistolero(9ss)(if youwant to stay in the family) and that leaves you with 4ss

[mcmourning san]

So what I've gotten from this discussion is it's not a matter who you play, but rather preference and how you play, with that being said, save high masks for Nino's trigger happy and cast obey from nephilim(mask built in) on Nino for a second round of possible headshots. Using Abuela requires you to use her shotgun wedding to make her worth her points and may only be used once so only take one off family model. In addition Perdita can make it with 2-5ss and to keep her activations clear of obey unless it serves a specific purpose. So maybe drop the 2 mercs and add a convict gunslinger leaving me with 3ss cache and an extra model able to rapid fire, who has paired pistols, bulletproof and yet another opportunity to trigger happy making him on par with Santiago with the additional benefit of becoming a family member for possible alpha strike and as a kicker has gunfighter and faster n' you.

[yslaire]

for her i play with 2-5ss. If you still want to stay in the family idea then for 3ss you can get Latigo Pistolero.

Familly themed choice but with less synergy due to ornery (which is a bit of a turn off).

With a slow moving team I would maybe consider an Austringer for a bit more long range interdiction paired with Nino.

While fighting resurrectionists or constructs I would consider replacing one family member (maybe not Abuela - her healing spell may be usefull against resilient ennemies but it has a very high CC) with a Judge (a bit faster than average), an Executioner (though a bit slow) or a pair of guild hounds (much faster). Just to try to clean some scrap and corpse counters.

A less soulstone effective choice would be a couple of Death Marshalls, that I would replace with stalkers against good casters.

Like said above I would consider the pale rider for its speed and added firepower when available.

Is the Nephilim absolutely usefull ? I would maybe drop it (especially to field 2 Death Marshalls or Stalkers).

My two cents. I'm not a tournament player.

:facepalm::slap::-X

Edited February 15, 2012 by yslaire

[von Clausewitz]

I'm a big fan of Von Schill with perdita. Having two highly mobile, difficult to kill models allows you to tailor the rest of your list to the faction you are fighting or the strategy you flip. He also has only marginal use for the masks perdita and the other ortegas like to have. I also don't like taking both Nino and Santiago with 'dita because the chances you have enough high masks to fully utilize the potential of all three models is slim to none.

Adding a Watcher to a Perdita/Von Schill list enables you to pressure many or all of your objectives simultaneously. Also, I've never been a fan of Francisco. For a point less you can take a witchling stalker, which is slightly less offensive than Francisco but has much greater utility (Dispel Magic, Disrupt Magic, and a magic weapon...yeah I'm looking at you Kirai!). One thing I have not yet had the opportunity to test, but which sounds good on paper is using Abuela's shotgun wedding on an exorcist.

Anyway, that's just how I play Perdita. The reason I love playing guild more than any other faction is the variety of models that can be effectively used with each master.

[Brettqpublic]

I am definately starting to get an understanding that Obey is not a primary source and should be used sparingly saving high masks for trigger happy's. In addition, I was wondering how many stones does Perdita typically need to stay alive, I know her 8 DF is impressive, but how many is a good starting number?

I like to run her with a 6SS cache at 35. Use SS is perhaps the most powerful ability in the game (it's either that or paired IMHO) and on a master with such high stats it is even better. It is fairly common for Perdita to be able to use a SS to make a minion's attack against her miss.

Honestly, I feel Perdita's one big drawback is her tiny initial cache. I would love to run her with 8 SS but usually have to settle for 6.

[nix]

I am going to make some broad assumptions here, so please read my response with that in mind.

I think your question may be flawed in relation to how you presented the body of your first post. I believe your really asking a question with 3 parts:

1. What is a solid Guild centered 35ss tournament list
   
2. How can that list be built using the Ortega box set
   
3. Here is the list I put together, how could it be tweaked
   

If your trying to make a solid tournament list with the Ortega box, thats different than trying to make a solid tournament list with Perdita as master. I would argue that vs some opponents, you would be better served with some of the Ortega's (Santiago and Nino for example) mixed in with other guild masters.

With that said, there are some other questions I would ask before trying to dig into a definitive answer.

1. What is the format of the tournament?
   
   • Fixed Faction, choose crews each round?
     
   • Fixed crew across multiple rounds?
     
   • Fixed Strategies pre-assigned?
     
   • Random Strategies?
     
   • Shared strategies vs individual strategies?
     

[*]What is your expected Meta?

• Lots of Resser's in your area?
  
• Lots of high-end tournament players using Chompy/Hamelin/Kirai/etc?
  
• New players who do not play many tournaments?
  

These are all factors in a game. As a tournament player, I would not worry about taking as many stones with Perdita is I am facing a load of new players (less than 50 games) as I would if I was facing tournament veterans. If I have shared strategies I need faster models than if I have individual strategies. Things like that would heavily influence how I recommend building a tournament list.

[nilus]

What Nix said.

Malifaux isn't really a game that lends it self to "tournament" lists. Most tourneys are played fixed faction so you list is often dictated by what you are going against and what you Strategy and schemes are.