Pig Boomerang

[BayouShark]

Threw a warpig and 3 piglets at a Lady Justice crew last night in an attempt to perfect the pig boomerang (my gunline has been shelved for the time being).

It was carnage. BUT, once the pigs had stampeded, I just flew my skeeters round the flanks and when the pigs had finally been killed, threw the skeeters in for pull my finger and basic attacks. I never actually sooeyed them out.

In what situations do you sooey the pigs out? I presume against combat heavy crews like the viktorias and undead zombie raising stuff.

I also notice that the slop hauler has sooey, but can't do that and heal the pigs in the same activation, which is a shame. Although I suppose if he activates last it's possible.

Also noticed the warpig pulling its weight more than it usually does. it's making me rethink the hog whisperer too for that sweet sweet reactivate.

[Headcase2]

Well, usually any pig that gets caught too close to LJ gets reduced to ham, so I'd use Sooey to keep them safe. But against a ranged crew (many guild crews are predominantly ranged) I'd stay in melee range.

[Omenbringer]

I usually Sooey them back every single time for healing, flight, and retargetting. This is especially true against models that are very good in melee like Lady Justice.

I almost always include a Hog Whisperer in my Pig Heavy Lists.

[skyhawk]

I like two slop haulers and a hog whisperer, keep the slop haulers on opposite sides of your pigs to sooey back and forth between them and heal, and keep the whisperer behind the pigs with some kind of protection ( i have mctavish, good range and melee ). keep the pigs moving and flying.... SOOOOEYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Omenbringer]

I like two slop haulers and a hog whisperer, keep the slop haulers on opposite sides of your pigs to sooey back and forth between them and heal, and keep the whisperer behind the pigs with some kind of protection ( i have mctavish, good range and melee ). keep the pigs moving and flying.... SOOOOEYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a few thoughts on this.

Thats a lot of SS in support models (19 for just the listed models, without considering Skeeters and a Bayou Gremlin or two for replacing Piglet loses) and in my opinion not enough in Pigs. In a 30 SS game that leaves only 11 Points for hiring Piglets, Skeeters, and a Bayou Gremlin. Without the Skeeters lining up the Pig Charges for the Pigs you are really not utilizing the Pig Boomerang tactic to full effect (since they are the model that allows you to really control the otherwise random Pig Charges and launch your pigs at the intended target). Additionally, without the Bayou Gremlins in the crew you will be unable to replace dead Piglets (and feed the control hand).

I would also say that McTavish can act as a replacement for a Hog Whisperer so having both is somewhat redundant (Scout is similar enough to flight though a bit more restricted, and Wrangle Critter is similar to Stik'em in the Ass without the incursion of Wds). You do have to decide if trading Sooey and Sweet Nothings for better offensive capability is worth it though.

Additionally, having 2 Slop Haulers is over kill since they tend to hide in the back field and heal the returning Pigs (1 less Slop Hauler = 1 more Piglet and half a Bayou Gremlin or Skeeter).

Hope it helps.

[Attila]

Without the Skeeters lining up the Pig Charges for the Pigs you are really not utilizing the Pig Boomerang tactic to full effect (since they are the model that allows you to really control the otherwise random Pig Charges and launch your pigs at the intended target). Additionally, without the Bayou Gremlins in the crew you will be unable to replace dead Piglets (and feed the control hand).

That's right. AND... Mosquitos can kill the opponent's hand, thats very important for your Cb4-Piglet-Strikes. AND... the Slop Hauler must decide whether he wants to heal or souey. Both isn't possible.

For an effective pig booomerang I'd try to leave out all unnecessary supporting models and to involve as many piglets as possible; e.g. 30SS would be Somer, Mosquito, 2 Bayous, Hog Whisperer or Slop Hauler (depends on terrain), 5-6 Piglets and a few soulstones.

[JisaacT]

If a pig has fly can he still charge across intervening terrain?

[Omenbringer]

That's right. AND... Mosquitos can kill the opponent's hand, thats very important for your Cb4-Piglet-Strikes. AND... the Slop Hauler must decide whether he wants to heal or souey. Both isn't possible.

This is probably why he has the 2 Slop Haulers in the list.

For an effective pig booomerang I'd try to leave out all unnecessary supporting models and to involve as many piglets as possible; e.g. 30SS would be Somer, Mosquito, 2 Bayous, Hog Whisperer or Slop Hauler (depends on terrain), 5-6 Piglets and a few soulstones.

This is pretty much the list I have been running for the last few years. Though I usually run 2 Skeeters vice the one.

Remember that to really be effective with Some'r, you should always strive to incorporate at least 2 of his tactics (i.e. Pig Boomerang/ Alpha Stank/ Gunline). In this way if the first isn't working for you then it is relatively simple to transition to the next in game. Though the gremlins have a lot of synergy within the crew if you dont temper the list then you will quickly suffer from "Menoth Syndrome".

If a pig has fly can he still charge across intervening terrain?

Only if it can also draw LOS to the Target (BTW blocking LOS to less desirable targets is one of the best uses for the Warpig in the Boomerang list).

Edited February 5, 2012 by Omenbringer

[skyhawk]

yes my whole goal was to have my pigs back and forth between the two slop haulers without anything getting in the way. and i always try to add a little gun line to the mix, but im not realy familiar with the alpha stank...hows it work?

[BayouShark]

the alpha stank is getting your skeeters within 3 inches of a particularly hard to kill modle and getting off a number of pull my fingers resulting in up to 12 points of unresistable damage.

With the high def of 7 they are relatively safe from reprisals and can fly off next turn.

i'm still not convinced on the hog whisperer. he's ok, but i think you can get more bang for your buck from other models. unless you have a warpig, which has only recently started to be worth anything for me and i still think 2 piglets and a gremlin/skeeter/malifaux rat will offer more.

struggling to use the slop hauler effectively too. it's got some amazing abilities, but if I use a skeeter to sooey the pigs out and the hauler to heal them, the hauler is usually the first model lined up for being stampeded.

[Attila]

the alpha stank is getting your skeeters within 3 inches of a particularly hard to kill modle and getting off a number of pull my fingers resulting in up to 12 points of unresistable damage.

12 points of damage? Totems can cast magical extension only once a turn and are in danger of killing themselves, because they aren't Gremlins anymore...

Or did you mean Somer activating with all of his four skeeters together for pull my finger (Somer: move + Pull my finger twice; each Skeeter: move + Pull my finger)?

Edited February 6, 2012 by Attila

[skyhawk]

I agree about the warpig its been very hit or miss for me. ive rapped the dead ridder with it and soaked up nearly his full wd and sooeyed and healed him to charge againe. but for 8ss 2 piglets and 2 ss or the other modles listed just give you a better swarm. and the only thing that makes the hog whisperer worth hiring is making pigs fly which is badass in my opinion.

Slop haulers just have to be in the right place at the right time, and so far they've been good to me. but im still semi new to the game

[Omenbringer]

and the only thing that makes the hog whisperer worth hiring is making pigs fly which is badass in my opinion.

There are a lot more things the Hog Whisperer can do than just make them fly. Giving select piglets reactivate can really increase the effectiveness of things like the Pig Boomerang and Pig Ladders for objective grabbing. He also provides the only way to summon a Bayou Gremlin to fuel Some'rs Get your Bro spell should the enemy kill your last one.

Slop haulers just have to be in the right place at the right time, and so far they've been good to me. but im still semi new to the game

The main problem I have with the Slop Haulers is that they are very immoble when healing and will be target priority number one for your opponent. The crew will either have to chaperone them or outpace them. They have some neat gimick combat abilities but they are all fairly low success and melee is a place they dont want to be.

if I use a skeeter to sooey the pigs out and the hauler to heal them, the hauler is usually the first model lined up for being stampeded.

Not sure I am understanding this one correctly, the model that fails the Sooey! casting flip is the model that gets charged by the Pigs. However if you are saying that the pigs are Swine Dashing your Slop Haulers after they have been healed then you are using the Pig Boomerang incorrectly. The Skeeters should be pushing the pig squadron well clear (and perferably out of LOS) of your friendly models prior to launching them. Also remember that models that are in base contact of the stampeding piglet can be ignored when performing Swine Dash's.

Additionally, if you absolutely cant avoid being the target of a Swine Dash then you can still cheat both the Pigs melee strike down and the targets Df up to ensure that the Stampeding Pig doesn't succed at hitting them (when playing gremlins Low cards are just as valuable as high cards in the control hand).

[BayouShark]

12 points of damage? Totems can cast magical extension only once a turn and are in danger of killing themselves, because they aren't Gremlins anymore...

Or did you mean Somer activating with all of his four skeeters together for pull my finger (Somer: move + Pull my finger twice; each Skeeter: move + Pull my finger)?

pull my finger does 2 damage, somer can have 4 totems - 8 damage. somer can cast it twice (and if you have a pig in there, 3 times because the pig can truffles him in) - 12 damage.

if you position it right, damage to your skeeters should be minimal. and to be honest, if you're going for the big stank, it should be a game winner anyway.

The main problem I have with the Slop Haulers is that they are very immoble when healing and will be target priority number one for your opponent. The crew will either have to chaperone them or outpace them. They have some neat gimick combat abilities but they are all fairly low success and melee is a place they dont want to be.

i agree with this one. On paper, the slop hauler has fantastic abilities. In reality, if you're getting rid of your opponents hand (and you should be), you don't need to be dropping enemy defences. positioning is also tricky in anything other than a gunline. so bizarrely, while they're made to work with hogs, they seem to work better with ophelia's rapid firing boys. though, see below about my idea of pairing them with one of your skeeters.

Not sure I am understanding this one correctly, the model that fails the Sooey! casting flip is the model that gets charged by the Pigs. However if you are saying that the pigs are Swine Dashing your Slop Haulers after they have been healed then you are using the Pig Boomerang incorrectly. The Skeeters should be pushing the pig squadron well clear (and perferably out of LOS) of your friendly models prior to launching them. Also remember that models that are in base contact of the stampeding piglet can be ignored when performing Swine Dash's.

sooey out with the skeeter, attempt to heal with the hauler. I suppose I could do it with multiple sooeys - one skeeter with the hauler, heal, sooey to another skeeter to set up the boomerang. that might work actually...better with many piglets than with a warpig though. still think the synergy between the warpig and the hog whisperer is the way to because the big pig work

Edited February 7, 2012 by BayouShark

[skyhawk]

So let me make sure i'm getting this straight. I need to be deppending more on skeeters than haulers and whisperers for my sooeying, and effectivly bringing the skeeters closer to my enemy so i can stank 'em and drop their hand....obviously skeeters need to be up front $$$$$$$$ing people off.

[Omenbringer]

sooey out with the skeeter, attempt to heal with the hauler. I suppose I could do it with multiple sooeys - one skeeter with the hauler, heal, sooey to another skeeter to set up the boomerang. that might work actually...better with many piglets than with a warpig though. still think the synergy between the warpig and the hog whisperer is the way to because the big pig work

I agree that the Warpig is better when paired with a Hog Whisperer however, I still prefer to hire 2 Piglets and Bayou Gremlin instead. It gives me more activations, more attacks, more movement shenanigans via Pig Ladders and of course a Bayou Gremlin to build up the Gunline.

So let me make sure i'm getting this straight. I need to be deppending more on skeeters than haulers and whisperers for my sooeying, and effectivly bringing the skeeters closer to my enemy so i can stank 'em and drop their hand....obviously skeeters need to be up front $$$$$$$$ing people off.

Skeeters are a mainstay of any gremlin force, they really do preform a lot of the heavy lifting for the crew.

[magicpockets]

I'm loving the sound of this thread, maybe I should buy some Gremlins and see how they work - are they a fun list to play?

[BayouShark]

I agree that the Warpig is better when paired with a Hog Whisperer however, I still prefer to hire 2 Piglets and Bayou Gremlin instead. It gives me more activations, more attacks, more movement shenanigans via Pig Ladders and of course a Bayou Gremlin to build up the Gunline.

I, too, prefer the multiple piglets. I have come a cropper before against really melee heavy crews where the piglets don't bounce far enough with their pig push and then get obliterated (the viktorias, bishop and so on). But with clever soeeying i should be able to limit this.

really need to try the sooey, heal, sooey combo. I think that can work because you don't have to worry about reckless.

Skeeters are a mainstay of any gremlin force, they really do preform a lot of the heavy lifting for the crew.

QFT. burst damage, movement, card manipulation. skeeters are our best model by far and making more of them is easy.

@pockets - they are incredibly fun because of their character, and the crazy things you can do with them. It is very hard, though, to get a gremlin crew ticking over and winning regularly. terror causes or guys that make you take willpower tests a lot are a huge pain.

as long as you can buy into the silliness and can persevere with them, they can become really quite effective.

[skyhawk]

I'm loving the sound of this thread, maybe I should buy some Gremlins and see how they work - are they a fun list to play?

You have no idea how fun this is! But i am a dumb hillbilly so the gremlins obviously tickle my fancy. And this crew realy $$$$$$$$es people off.

[Chucklemonkey]

You have no idea how fun this is! But i am a dumb hillbilly so the gremlins obviously tickle my fancy. And this crew realy $$$$$$$$es people off.

Well I'm in for a Gremlin based year. Somer Teeth now in the post. Looking forward to trying a few of these tricks out.

[skyhawk]

Enjoy sir...enjoy

[Omenbringer]

I'm loving the sound of this thread, maybe I should buy some Gremlins and see how they work - are they a fun list to play?

I think you'll like them a lot (though know that your heart will always belong to Hamelin).

I have come a cropper before against really melee heavy crews where the piglets don't bounce far enough with their pig push and then get obliterated (the viktorias, bishop and so on). But with clever soeeying i should be able to limit this.

really need to try the sooey, heal, sooey combo. I think that can work because you don't have to worry about reckless.

It really sounds like you are not really using the Boomerang to full effect. When using it with the Hog Whisperer's giving them Flight via Never Happen and the Skeeter "Air Traffic Controllers" directing the Pig Charges via Soeey! they have a 20" threat range (with the first attack).

Bringing them back is important for a few reasons;

1. It allows you to Heal them back up
   
2. It allows you to buff them again (with Never Happen or Stik'em in the Ass!)
   
3. It allows you to redirect them at new targets

Against the melee heavy crews, out activation is the key to success. When done right you can usually avoid the retaliation.

as long as you can buy into the silliness and can persevere with them, they can become really quite effective.

They aren't really that silly and have been very effective from the begining. I would agree though that they do need to be played differently than most crews out there and aren't an "easy button" for the most part.

[BayouShark]

It really sounds like you are not really using the Boomerang to full effect. When using it with the Hog Whisperer's giving them Flight via Never Happen and the Skeeter "Air Traffic Controllers" directing the Pig Charges via Soeey! they have a 20" threat range (with the first attack).

Bringing them back is important for a few reasons;

1. It allows you to Heal them back up
   
2. It allows you to buff them again (with Never Happen or Stik'em in the Ass!)
   
3. It allows you to redirect them at new targets

1. surely more efficient with the slop hauler, as the hog whisperer can only heal 1 pig, plus you need him to soeey and reactivate, and fly.

2. never happen is awesome, but the terrain we've been using locally isn't as heavy as it should be, so maybe that's why the whisperer has never performed for me.

[Spiku]

1. for healing, maybe, but it depends because the slop hauler cannot sooey AND heal, and you will prevent more wounds getting them back to base than leaving them out in the open; and if you're having to sooey, you aint healing that turn. Slop Hauler is a lot better on paper than in play

2.when you get terrain, you will Never Happen every round! Reactivate, too, can really help you win games, not just dash 3 times more, in a recent game I was able to, with the use 2 pigs, reactivate and a mosquito, pull a bayou gremlin to the centre of the table, pick up the treasure, and walk 10 inches away. Equally, reactivate means you can take the (all) action to be significant, then sooey about/walk and interact with things that require significant. These two VP winning aspects make the Hog Whisperer the mandatory for me. But I also use Avatar Som'er ;D

I'd just like to say though, from my experience, pig list isn't fun. Bloody effective, but just not as enjoyable for me, personally, to play. Apart from when I'm running Avatar Som'er about! But if there's deliver a message on the enemy team, for example, gosh darn it will be a tedious game.

[Omenbringer]

1. surely more efficient with the slop hauler, as the hog whisperer can only heal 1 pig, plus you need him to soeey and reactivate, and fly.

2. never happen is awesome, but the terrain we've been using locally isn't as heavy as it should be, so maybe that's why the whisperer has never performed for me.

I almost never use the Hog Whisperer to Sooey, it is a waste (that is what the Skeeters are for).

1. for healing, maybe, but it depends because the slop hauler cannot sooey AND heal, and you will prevent more wounds getting them back to base than leaving them out in the open; and if you're having to sooey, you aint healing that turn. Slop Hauler is a lot better on paper than in play

This is very true, I rarely use a Slop Hauler (or Ophelia with Some'r or a Pigapult). It usually comes down to him or the Whisperer and I get a lot more mileage out of the Whisperer.

2.when you get terrain, you will Never Happen every round!

This is why I always bring a Hog Whisperer, It allows me to do to many things that the Slop Hauler does not (like ignore most terrain, assist with ignoring terrifying checks, and setting up Swine Dashes).

Reactivate, too, can really help you win games, not just dash 3 times more, in a recent game I was able to, with the use 2 pigs, reactivate and a mosquito, pull a bayou gremlin to the centre of the table, pick up the treasure, and walk 10 inches away.

Interested to hear how your Bayou Gremlin Walked 10" after picking up the Treasure (1 AP), Treasue Hunt limits your movement to 4 per Wk action (and the typical gremlin movement shenanigans are denied as well) so at most he could have covered 8" after picking it up.