Nicodem's Embrace Death

[Calmdown]

Can I please get a sequence or some timing on how this ability interacts with undead-affecting abilities from a RM? The most confusing part is the use of the word "when" which is not really defined at all.

As written, this talent barely interacts with any talents at all, and is very questionable with others.

For example:

Grave Spirit - Nicodem gains Undead when affected by Strength from Below; does this mean he gains the Undead trait permanently whilst the Grave Spirit is attached, since he is constantly affected by Strength from Below? Or does he gain it only for the purposes of that talent? Can you please explain why?

Mortimer - "All friendly Undead models in play..." since this doesn't affect Nicodem as he isn't Undead at the time of using it, he never gets the chance to gain Undead - or does he?

It seems to me the intention of Nicodem's ability is to let all beneficial friendly Undead effects work on him, but as written it's very ambiguous.

Thanks

[edonil]

In defense of the program, it was written by Ratty, who is a rules marshal...

[Golden]

Im not disrespecting the program. I just dont trust computers. They screw up frequently, and for no good reason.

[seekerco]

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling. I'm under the weather and was running through the posts so I decided to create an account.

And not trusting computers doesn't support the fact that Wyrd has it listed on their official site. I'm not going to part hairs. I just feel it's a good reference for building your crews. I'm assuming you play Levi and Nico a lot otherwise you would have never brought it up. And another assumption is that you are defending the ability to run them together because you like too. If the people you game with allow it then who cares. I'm just pointing out that Wyrd has provided something on their official site that lets you put crews together. And from this tool Nico and Levi are not a legal group.

I just found this on their website.

"The best place to start collecting a Leveticus Crew is with The Desolate and the Soulless Box Set which should give you enough models to play a small game. If you want to expand on this Leveticus can hire Undead, Constructs or Soulless models from any faction, check out what models are available to hire using the Crew Creator. Below are a few suggestions, but what you choose is up to you. "

Edited May 22, 2012 by seekerco

[Golden]

Actually, never ran them together in my life. I was planning on it. It just seemed very thematic to me, two grizzled old men with great knowledge and understanding in two different aspects of death and dying. It just seemed appropriate. The reason I defend it is, the way Ive argued the factors at hand it would seem that the rules support it.

---------- Post added at 04:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 AM ----------

Theres a blurb like that after every boxed set. Also I just went on the crew creator, and Im not going to sit and talk badly about it, but lets just say its not the greatest reference to back up what your saying.

Nevermind, just realized that the weird selection of models for Hamelin is legit, didn't realize he could hire Governor's Proxy as a totem in a Brawl, alongside the Dreamer with Grave Spirit connected. Sounds retarded doesn't it?

---------- Post added at 04:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 AM ----------

But I still would like to know why it wouldn't work.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Golden

[seekerco]

Like I said I wouldn't care if you ran it but I'm going with the context of the thread. Being that Calmdown wanted an official ruling on Nicodem for tournament play I would have to say no on this combo in that context. Friendly games between friends then who cares.

---------- Post added at 02:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 AM ----------

This would be my argument. I'm going off the small rulebook pg. 12 "Abilities are always considered active during the game unless otherwise indicated and are applied whenever called for by the rules." The key hear is during the game.

Pg. 4 of the small rulebooks states in the Summary of Play this "Before a game of Malifaux (called an Encounter) begins, players generate objectives (called Strategies) and may choose secondary objectives (called Schemes) and hire Crews."

Since most abilities are only active during the game I would have to say Nicodem for the sake of hiring is not undead. Once the game starts then when he is affected by a talent or spell he can choose to gain the undead characteristic. He does not start out with this characteristic.

As far as Hamlin goes they meet his hiring requirements of being HT1. Just because you can hire them doesn't always make the best sense a crew. As I've seen when making my own crews.

Edited May 22, 2012 by seekerco

[Golden]

FINALLY!!!! Thats all I was asking. Point conceded. You are the first person that has actually told me why it doesn't work.

Never a loss if you learn something from it.

---------- Post added at 04:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 AM ----------

And why run Leveticus and Nicodem, when I can just run Kirai and The Dreamer.

[seekerco]

Thanks. I'm similar and that I like to know the reason behind it. Just sometimes I don't like to do all the digging but this has actually help in resolving some other issues. I'm just glad it could be logically explained. I guess running a fever is good for something.

And I agree with you on Kirai and the Dreamer but I also like to use strange combinations because they create a bigger story. Even if you decrease your chances of succeeding. Plus like I said if you are playing with people you know see if they will let you run it.

[Golden]

My friends would let me run them as well. The main reason I like to know these things is because Im looked to as the most experienced player for the area I live in. Which is a position I never asked for, but try to at least do justice. And the people I play with won't accept "you just can't."