MudgeBlack Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 First off, I apologize, I'm sure this has been covered but the search function won't work with my phone. Now, can the Rotten Belle's Lure be used to trigger Seamus' No Escape? Lure is a push and no escape triggers on a movement effect. So whats the verdict? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Clausewitz Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Pushes are movement effects, so yes the lure would trigger no escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yes you can do this and yes it's an awesome combo Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oshova Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 This must be the way it works, as otherwise manifesting Seamus into his Avatar is really really hard. =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JisaacT Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I do have a question about this move though. Say you activate seamus to get into melee range and bust out some moves then use no escape for your 0 point. Can a model be lured out of Seamus' melee range and still be charged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I do have a question about this move though. Say you activate seamus to get into melee range and bust out some moves then use no escape for your 0 point. Can a model be lured out of Seamus' melee range and still be charged No. You have to activate No Escape when the model begins its movement, and you can't charge something you're already in melee with. You could Lure the target twice, potentially, and charge it on the second one. This must be the way it works, as otherwise manifesting Seamus into his Avatar is really really hard. =p Not really... People frequently get wrapped around needing both conditions to manifest, but it's not strictly necessary. You can reliably Trail of Fear on the first two turns, and then use the (2) to manifest on 3 - Seamus will still have one more AP and his (0) to move or do something with, and his Avatar exerts such incredible passive potential I'll frequently just get him manifested and moved into position. Completely decimated a Neverborn opponent who had gotten too clustered by doing that, without ever having him spend another AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 No. You have to activate No Escape when the model begins its movement, and you can't charge something you're already in melee with. You could Lure the target twice, potentially, and charge it on the second one. Is this something that's been officially clarified somewhere? I'm not sure how it's supported by the rule. Not saying you're wrong, I'd just like to see the reasoning. My reading was that the Charge would occur immediately after the movement effect (since it was my impression that effects which generate a new action wait until the current action is fully resolved before occurring "immediately"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 That reasoning has been ruled to apply to "activate immediately". You wait for the activation to end before you activate "immediately" Actions, however, can interrupt other actions. Slow to Die is the best example. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The recent thread on Onslaught versus Squeel was leading me here... the Squeel move happens first because it's part of the existing Duel, then Onslaught creates a new Duel so it's resolved afterwards (though the Gremlin's probably nicked off by then). In this situation, it seems like this would lead to the current Duel (the Lure duel) being resolved completely, including the movement effect, before the new Duel (the Strike duel from Charging via No Escape) begins. The wonkiness comes from the fact that the No Escape event produces both a Movement effect and a Strike effect, and only one of those is subject to the Duel-based timing from the other thread... so I'm not sure how to resolve things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24382&highlight=escape+seamus The thread can be a little confusing because Sketch updated his answer, but I think the end result is clear. Basically, when the movement happens, No Escape activates and interrupts the movement in order to resolve. This is different than Onslaught because Onslaught generates an additional action, which doesn't interrupt the current one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JisaacT Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 ok cool so cant be lured out of melee to do this. But if hes not in melee...AW YEAHHHH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 ok cool so cant be lured out of melee to do this. But if hes not in melee...AW YEAHHHH Assuming you're willing to use both the Belle's AP, you could double Lure the target, or Lure Seamus out first and then Lure the target, allowing Seamus to charge back in at him Second way is a bit easier (because you only have to worry about one resist) and will work even on models fast enough that the Lure might take them out of Seamus' charge range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24382&highlight=escape+seamus The thread can be a little confusing because Sketch updated his answer, but I think the end result is clear. Basically, when the movement happens, No Escape activates and interrupts the movement in order to resolve. This is different than Onslaught because Onslaught generates an additional action, which doesn't interrupt the current one. I disagree that it's different from Onslaught, since they both generate an additional action, and it's resolved "immediately" (no mention of interrupting anything). However, since there's been an official clarification, the point is moot. Cheers for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I disagree that it's different from Onslaught, since they both generate an additional action, and it's resolved "immediately" (no mention of interrupting anything). However, since there's been an official clarification, the point is moot. Cheers for the link. Sorry, I think I was unclear on the why (or just plain wrong, take your pick ) Onslaught (and all the other chain-attack triggers like Overpower, etc) triggers "after damaging", which means it doesn't actually go off until the end of the full damage resolution process. Both go immediately when their conditions are met - for No Escape its when the movement occurs, so it interrupts that movement. For the attack chains, it's after damage has been completely resolved. This is part of why you can't trigger a chain attack if you hit a master who prevents all the damage via soulstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Sorry, I think I was unclear on the why (or just plain wrong, take your pick ) Onslaught (and all the other chain-attack triggers like Overpower, etc) triggers "after damaging", which means it doesn't actually go off until the end of the full damage resolution process. Both go immediately when their conditions are met - for No Escape its when the movement occurs, so it interrupts that movement. For the attack chains, it's after damage has been completely resolved. This is part of why you can't trigger a chain attack if you hit a master who prevents all the damage via soulstone. Okay, that basically clears it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MudgeBlack Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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