Hamelin's Pipes

[dbr_83]

Had my first experience with Hamelin today... Interesting, different and painful are words that all spring to mind; but I digress.

One of my models was killed (a Sorrow) by his pipes, with severe damage which activated his trigger allowing him to move said Sorrow. As the Sorrow was killed, is the Hamelin player given the benefits of the trigger, or does the Sorrow simply die?

On a side note, it made 0 difference to the game, but would like clarification as we had a few people check the wording, and couldn't all agree.

[Sandwich]

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19910&highlight=Slow+versus+Pipes

Tl;dr if you don't feel like reading all 3 pages,

The model simply dies.

The explanation is incredibly wonky but official rules are official.

[dbr_83]

Cheers mate, thought as much, just wanted clarification =)

[Wolfgar]

Yeah, I think it has to do with it not really being a trigger but a feature of the weapon.

[Kadeton]

I didn't find the explanation at all wonky, personally. It makes sense to me that if a model is killed by the attack, it dies and therefore can't move or charge. Nothing to do with weapon attribute vs trigger, as far as I can see.

[Sandwich]

I didn't find the explanation at all wonky, personally. It makes sense to me that if a model is killed by the attack, it dies and therefore can't move or charge. Nothing to do with weapon attribute vs trigger, as far as I can see.

The official ruling states that Death is a part of a Strike, not an effect generated by dealing enough Wd to a model to kill it.

Meaning that it takes priority over any triggers or effects that do not explicitly state that they take effect BEFORE the model dies.

This was confusing to a few of us because almost all other effects generated from a Strike are... Effects Generated from a strike, meaning you completely resolve the Strike action before you move onto any effects generated by it.

Which actually makes me wonder, can you generate from models that are killed by the strike?

It's not a trigger so the timing should be the same as the obey from the Pipes, and based on the ruling from the Pipes, the model would be removed before any templates were placed.

Hm.

I don't think that'd work the same, though and I don't think it warrants its own new post.

Anyway,

The counter argument was that Death was a result of a strike, not a component to one, and that you would resolve the Strike before any effects generated from the strike would come into play, meaning the Obey would've happened first.

But to everyone:

The official ruling you need to play by is that Death is NOT a result of a Strike, but a part of one if it occurs.

Meaning no Obey.

[Kadeton]

My impression of the ruling was that death was part of damage resolution, not an effect of the attack. That pretty much clears up everything for me... attack, resolve "after hitting" effects and triggers, resolve damage (blasts are resolved here, models may die here), resolve "after damaging" effects and triggers.

I can see the confusion due to Pipes' specific wording of "when this weapon inflicts Severe damage" timing, but AFAICT all damage-related effects are resolved after damage is resolved, regardless of their wording.

This would also mean, if I'm not mistaken, that if the target made a wound prevention flip and reduced the Severe damage to No damage, the Pipes effect would not happen because damage was not inflicted.

[Wolfgar]

My impression of the ruling was that death was part of damage resolution, not an effect of the attack.

Makes sense to me on that basis.

[Sandwich]

If it's a part of resolving Damage, then Pipes would take effect, as they state "When this model inflicts Severe Damage on a non-Master model with Wp 5 or less, that model immediately takes a (1) action or Charge controlled by this model's controller."

It doesn't state "After Damaging Controller."

It states pretty specifically that as soon as Severe Damage is dealt, that model is Obeyed.

- - - -

Wyrd has apparently confirmed somewhere to someone (As mentioned on the original thread) that they're looking to work on timing.

Hopefully they either change the rules or clarify them a little because if Buhallin, Magicpockets, and I get confused on the way it works, there's someting off.

[dbr_83]

Another question in relation to Hamelin... If Bleeding Disease is successfully cast, does the target lose the blight counters used? And is there any way to get rid of them?

[magicpockets]

You're best keeping one question per thread.

[dbr_83]

*le sigh* was hoping to keep from spamming the forums, but if you insist =p