Hoffman Player Seeks advice

[Palmerdoc13]

So I have played some games with Lady J and Hoffman, and I've found I tend to prefer Hoff's playstyle a bit more. My dilema is that I often become over-extended with my peacekeeper/hoff combo, leaving the remainder of the team in the dust for the sake of tearing up opponents in late turn 1 or early turn 2. I should put in the disclaimer that I play very aggressive in most table top games. To combat this "extension" problem, I have considered running a faster moving crew with some models I didn't originally plan on using. Something like

Hoff

Peacekeeper

Steamborg Executioner

Ryle (the Steamborg has a rule that states he's living which can be used to push ryle around making him pretty quick)

Watcher

Mobile Toolkit

35 ss with 4ss cache

This list allows for some better mobility and reduces my chances of leaving things like the guardian in the dust, even with his overprotective talent. Thoughts? I can't wait for the pale rider to come out to give me some more speed and I have been strongly considering using the mechanical rider just for her speed as well. Nice thing about quick lists is that the game ends quickly, win or lose:)

[Da Big Baws]

I don't think the Steamborg is worth it for the Hoff. Pale Rider, Mechanical Rider, and the Peackeeper are better in his crews in my opinion.

[tadaka]

I find it odd your leaving the guardian in the dust. 2 walks and a push around to a model at end of turn is fairly decent moblility imho. The peacekeeper only moves 15 inches max well baring reactivate. Heck the borg can only do 10 inches. That being said the borg is actualy better with hoff then he is with ramos imho. Hoff can put up cloud for him giving him protection with full mobility

[Palmerdoc13]

the first turn with the guardian is ALWAYS spent casting Protect, meaning you get one 4" walk plus the 6 inch push. Usually hoff and his peacekeeper are out of reach unless I stay back turn one and wait for turn two to assault, in which case I still would have to activate the guardian first in turn 2 and throw him at the opponent before activating the keeper otherwise he'll be out of range of the protect mechanism for the initial damage he'll likely receive. Again, since my playstyle is more on the aggressive side, I tend to leave it in the dust. The borg moving 10iches and having melee expert makes it capable of using its mobility to the fullest while still be able to attack. I'd prefer to roll the keeper and both riders, but I don't have the mechanical rider and the pale one doesn't appear to be coming out soon:( Does anyone use the borg successfully with Hoffman? He's such a points sink, I cringe when I take him

[Turbodog]

I have used a similar playstyle to your own with my Hoffman crew. I do not take a steamborg, as I find the points a bit too much (as you said).

Normally I don't charge turn 1. I position turn 1. As pointed out, the guardian is busy casting protect turn 1. In my lists, that also means that Hoffman is busy assimilating it and casting it himself turn 1 also - as well as his totem if I have one. So the whole crew is a bit slower turn 1...better for a positioning turn where I don't necessarily reactivate. (reactivate is IMHO what really causes the distances to open up).

From turn 2 on, however, Hoffman and the shredder - I mean peacekeeper - aggressively can go wild. As you said, moving the Guardian aggressive forward early is a good move to help as much as you can. In some cases, you still end up with Hoffman and Peacekeeper too far from Guardian for overprotective on any given turn. That's what I use my Watcher(s) for. I try to land them in the "gap" between Hoffman and the Guardian but still within 6" of the Guardian. That way the Guardian still gets a 6" push forward toward the "front lines". Often Hoffman and PK establish my fighting line on turn 2 and the Guardian is half way there. On the following turn, Hoff didn't move much - using AP for attacks - so the Guardian catches up the following turn. But you need that other model (watcher is really good for this) to provide a push point that gets the Guardian closer on the "in between" turns.

Happy hunting.

[sharpobjects]

Adding two wardens instead of the Steamborg is much better use of 10 stones. You gain the mobility you are looking for with their walk of 5 inch and additional walk using relentless.

They also give you some range weapons up the board. Hoffman using his machine puppet on them gives you a CB6 instead of CB4. This will give you a better chance at paralyzing models with an additional ram. You also get a positive twist to damage and the attack against models that have already activated.

Two wardens also give you 4 total scrap counters when killed instead of three from the steamborg. You also save 1 stone because you pay 11 for the borg.

As far as proxy, I use 2 modified guardians. The Guardians frame is about the same as the warden, you just need to modify his arms.

[KeaponLaffin]

Woah.. from what you guys are saying it sounds like protect lasts throughout the game, not just the round.

Is that correct? If so, that changes everything.

[Palmerdoc13]

thanks for the replies. Worst thing I have found about the borg is he is also a clear cut Kill Protege target and he's not that tough to kill. Yes protect lasts the entire game or until you cast it again on something else. I have a hard time proxying and I am bummed that Wyrd is dragging their feet releasing the two most excited guild minions.

Another roll I figured out for the borg is to take him and ryle with no PK and basically use his steam cloud in the early turns to give your Hoff blob cover while firing out of it with ryle. When the opponent closes the gap, you have an awesome counter attacking model. Ryle definitely had some moments in the last game I played with an integral red joker dmg flip. He can really blow stuff up with the right cards.

[micahwc]

Didn't realize Protect lasted that long, this changes things.

Before this, I only used the guardian if I didn't take the peacekeeper. Hoff took off too fast for the guardian to keep up; however, when I used Ryle for Hoff's ride the guardian worked out really well.

Last game Ryle killed a bunch of belles and the guardian killed the supply wagon.

[KeaponLaffin]

Thanks for clarifying re: protect.

I've only played 3 games with Hoff so far, but I've won them all. I didn't know that protect lasted, so I generally relied on Shield Wall. I'd get into place fast, then spend the rest of the game camped out in formation..

Ryle - PK

G - H - Watcher

MTkit -Watcher

So Ryle, PK, Hoff & Mobile Toolkit all get Shield Wall armor,

Hoff is base to base with PK, Guardian, Mobile Toolkit & 2 watchers so he's maxing out his damage on Open Circuit (7 damage?) and has crazy high casting from the +5. Peel off the watchers to grab objectives as required (if the bonus damage on open circuit isn't necessary).

If you interpret Reactivate as "Assimilatable", you can activate Ryle.. fire x 3. Activate Hoff, Tap power on the mobile toolkit, Over Edit on Ryle, Assimilate Reactivate and then machine puppet Ryle for a shot. Then Ryle shoots x3... then next time around Hoff can machine puppet x 3 (still fast).. so 10 Ryle shots.. and everyone is at +4 armor.

I hear tell that the guys I play with are going to start focusing on guys that ignore armor though.. in which case that protect is going to come in real handy

[KeaponLaffin]

Oh wait... not true. I forgot that I lost one due to lack of mobility... board position was such that I could even fight the guy so I resigned.

So ya.. that's a problem.

[Palmerdoc13]

I was told hoffman couldn't assimilate the Reactivate given by his override edict. Any verification on that?

[tadaka]

I can say that no offical answer has been given on this issue. They have only said effects like fast count as a talent. For the moment it comes down to local play group.

[Palmerdoc13]

whats the general consensus on what you fellow guildees play? Do you assimilate his given reactivate? and do you guys ignore the slow that he gives during tap power because it seems like you could do that too.

[Cadilon]

whats the general consensus on what you fellow guildees play? Do you assimilate his given reactivate? and do you guys ignore the slow that he gives during tap power because it seems like you could do that too.

Pretty in depth discussion of this HERE.

Though I've not heard anything about ignoring slow from Tap Power. How does this work?

Edited December 2, 2011 by Cadilon

[Palmerdoc13]

well that forum post did answer the question that Maintain Machines cannot ignore the Slow given by maintain machines but gives us no answer on whether he can assimilate the reactivate. I think I will go on the ruling that you can, given at the gaming tournament until told otherwise. I don't think this is nearly as overpowered as some people are making it out to be. Sometimes it will tear stuff up but ultimately there are some crews out there with far more outlandishly cheesy crap than this. Hoffman moves in a giant blob or he gets overextended. Play to this and you have an honest shot to beat him with antimobility schemes and strategies.

[KeaponLaffin]

Ya, I've been following that thread closely. To be honest, I think the rules are pretty clearly in favour of allowing Reactivate to be assimilated.. but regardless of the current rules if it's unbalancing then they'll just change the rule

The "everything moves as a clump" offsets the power of the reactivate I think. Depending on the strategy, you can more or less lose before the game even starts. And unless you keep everyone clumped together for the boost to spell casting, it can be a bit hard to get the Override Edict off.