Doppel, Weaver Widow, Scrap & Corpse Counters

[NBmaster]

Can the Doppelganger mimic the Weaver Widow's action,

(1) Thread from Nightmare: This model may discard two Control Cards to gain one corpse or scrap counter. This Action may be taken only once per activation.

I believe the doppelganger could mimic this Action as it does not mention any specific models so the real question, would Doppelganger be able to hold onto the scrap/corpse counter as she does not have Grave Robber or Scavenger, nor can it mimic either,which i have been lead to believe a model must have to interact with scrap/corpse counters . If the doppel cannot interact with said counters would they still be created and available for other models such as the Weaver Widow to interact with them by taking a (1) action to pick them up or move by them to pick them up or something to that effect.

Thanks in advance for a response, just trying to figure out exactly how these models will synergize

[Ozz]

No idea as to the answer of your question, but just saying this to see if i understand your meaning correctly?

if you create the counter, can you then place it in base to base with the Doppelganger so it can be picked by another model, ether Grave robber or Scavenger depending?

[mindwarpusa]

The Doppelganger cant use mimic to use an action at all she can only copy a basic weapon, appearance(giving it harmless), talent, a stat(wk/cg, ht, wp, or df) or a (1) spell.

[NBmaster]

Yes, I am asking if

a. The counter is created

b. does the dopple get to hold on to it

c. and if not can another model get said counter

[NBmaster]

That's interesting MindWarp because the action is listed under the heading of Talents on the info sheet of the Widow Weaver. That would make an Action a Talent thus making it mimicable

Edited October 25, 2011 by NBmaster

[Stern]

Yes, I am asking if

a. The counter is created

b. does the dopple get to hold on to it

c. and if not can another model get said counter

I would say she makes one.

But she can't hold it so it drops underneath her as if she had been killed and dropped a corpse counter.

so I believe if another model was in base to base it could pick it up.

That's how I see it anyway (makes the most sense to me)

[mindwarpusa]

You're right had to reread that section. In that case at least as far as specific wording in the rules manual no she should'nt be able to use the action and create said counter, because per the wording on page 18 of the rules manual under heading counters, "A model is eligible to gain a counter if, at the time it gains the counter, it has the appropriate characteristic, or possesses a talent or spell that uses it." Hrmm unless that by gaining that talent it is consider a talent that uses said counter? However even if she could gain it she wouldn't be able to drop it until she died. Also I don't think that at least as far as the spirit of the rules would allow for her to get it, but i'm not a RM. Again maybe she could use the action and just nothing happen which would of course be a waste or it wound drop next to her, but i doubt it being as the action says gain not create.

Edited October 25, 2011 by mindwarpusa

[Q'iq'el]

No idea as to the answer of your question, but just saying this to see if i understand your meaning correctly?

if you create the counter, can you then place it in base to base with the Doppelganger so it can be picked by another model, ether Grave robber or Scavenger depending?

If it says the caster "gains" the token, then nobody can pick it up. It's carried by the caster.

The prerequisite to be able to pick up counters is to be able to use them (in wider sense - being able to create them means you have a spell dealing with them at the moment, so IMO you can use them). I don't think Scavenger of Graverobber is necessary.

If I'm wrong here and she cannot actually carry these counters, then the second choice is spell fizzles. The spell effect is to give her counter, not to place it on the ground. If one of the effects cannot be executed, the entire spell fizzles (at least you waste nothing but AP).

Unless rules have changed, no other model, friend or foe, can do anything to counters carried by a model. You cannot use them, you cannot destroy them, unless the spell you use says so. In other words, the crew would gain access to these counters only when Doppleganger dies (as that's the only way to drop counters you carry).

Which makes, IMO, copying of that ability somewhat useless.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Calmdown]

Please quote full paragraphs, not out of context sentences

The quoted "eligible to gain a counter" section is prefaced by:

"A model touching or moving over a counter can choose to immediately gain that counter if it is eligible to do so"

It then defines that eligibility. The eligibility applies to the case of picking a counter up, through the keyword gain.

Nowhere is a model restricted from getting a counter by other means. For example if Nicodem lost his Graverobber ability, nothing would stop Canine Remains giving corpse counters to him using For You, Master.

Now you need to read further down:

"If a model loses the characteristic, talent or spell that allows it to use a type of counter it carries, it retains all of that type of counter; it does not drop them"

This clearly defines what happens to a model that carries counters when it doesn't have an appropriate trait. IE, nothing.

So yes, Doppelganger can copy and use that ability, and she will get a counter. She will drop the counter when she dies. But she can never copy the ability to create a Teddy (since it mentions a model by name). She can copy abilities that discard counters for healing flips and similar, though, so it's a niche case but still potentially relevant.

It's all in the rulebook gentlemen!

Edited October 25, 2011 by Calmdown

[D-A-C]

Sorry about the awful threadomancy, but I used the search feature and this is a topic I was curious about the legality of rules wise.

So:

1. The Doppleganger can mimic Widow Weavers ability Thread from nightmares. That's fine.

2. However, the doppleganger must count as holding seperate scrap counters for the purposes of summoning a Teddy, correct?

The way this was used in a game I played recently was that the doppleganger mimiced the ability to make scrap counters so that by Turn 2/3 doppleganger + Widow Weaver would have produced 4 scrap counters between them (2 each) and thus have the four necessary to summon a teddy.

But surely that's not correct, as at this point Widow Weaver has two ... Doppleganger has two ... but Widow Weaver needs four and there is no way the doppleganger can pass the counters over to Widow Weaver, so it's kind of a pointless move to be doing.

Is that right?