The ballad of a Midnight Painter.

[dsmiles]

Thanks and welcome.

Here's a before and after comparison of what the GhettoJug™ has done for my photos:

Why is your wall ACU patterned? I died a little on the inside when I saw that.

[i_was_like_you]

Why is your wall ACU patterned? I died a little on the inside when I saw that.

That's not my wall, that's an Army ACU patterned note pad I was using as a backdrop to not have my pile of unpainted Reaper minis showing in the background.

[Breadcrab]

Looks like I need a larger GhettoJug™ to take a picture of this GhettoJug™ properly.

[i_was_like_you]

lol

Not what I meant, but he's good with a camera, he just might do.

[Breadcrab]

...

Alrighty.. Looks like I am ready to go here!

Everything is squared away, and I even have a workshop at the new digs!

It smells of rich mahogney...and the litter box

So now i just need to crack those boxes open, and start assembling me some Minis!

...

Well folks we all knew this was going to happen... at some point all the non sequiturs in the world couldn't save me from.. you know... the hard part

Alright. Lets do this! [Faints]

So to get me going down the Sapphic road to Rezbian-ism I picked the Nicodem CQ box, which as far as I'm concerned is just a rad collection of models. I also got my man-feelers on a blister of Canine Remains and a blister of Necropunks (Pictured above), because who really wants to spend five points on Samurai when you're just going to rez them in a couple turns later anyway. AmmIRight?

When even Nikki Minaj thinks your buying strategy is whack, you know you've done something terribly terribly wrong....Yeah that's the super bass.

So, now that i think about it, How do you you really do this?

Seriously. How many of us have started from scratch, wandered into the store after playing a demo game to buy our first box of "Starter," and gotten home to find a baggy full of disconnected metal bits, and pokey bits on sprues that are barely differentiated from casting flash?

There is no in store demo of "Oh hey let me show you how to put that together." and if you're anything like me you buy pretty much whatever the guys at the store tell you too.

Now compare that to rolling up to NerdHerd desk and asking for help building an "internet computer."

At that point you might as well walk up with your pants down and your wallet open.

"Sooo this will be this many dollars.... and you can just put your tatoo n' that sh-- Where's your tattoo? Tattoo. Why come you don't got this?"

Now here is a dirty secret. [Ron Perlman voice] Crafting never changes. No matter if you are making Craypaper baskets, or finishing off your 6ft tall Necron Sphinx tomb. When you ask for advice you are going to run into 3 types of people:

The Noob.

The Vague Advice Giver

The Verbal Diuretic.

Lets face it, any advice when you're starting from scratch is great, but you're only really going to get help from the Diuretics, and then you have to isolate them from any other advice givers, otherwise they may smell eachothers craft musk... and that's when Sh-- gets real.

How dare you invoke the name of Armory Paints in my presence! I SHALL SLAP AT YOU UNTILL THE CHEETO DUST FALLS FROM YOUR VERY FINGERTIPS!

The problem I keep running into with the very basics of minis is Glue. You know, attaching one ting to another ting. It seems to be a bit of a sore spot, because people get really defensive of their choices. Whenever you try to dig deeper though, it turns into Rovian miniatures. I dug around, and for the life of me could not find a single side by side comparison of products, just heresay, and blanket statements.

Before you eve ask, of course I did a pseudo-scientific study to get some hard answers.

So here's what I got:

Standard storebrand superglue cyanoacrylate [Loctite]

Gorilla Super Glue

Reaper Green Stuff

JB Weld Kwik

E-6000 Commercial Epoxy

Liquid Nails

Science isn't cheap... but replaceable lead pencils from when you were a kid? those are bloody priceless.

I happen to have a couple dozen old sprues lying around in the tackle box in a "in case of science break plastic seal" drawer. (You all have an "In Case of Science" drawer right? ...Guys?) So I set up making batches of equal sized pewter rods connected with equal size points of contact, then color coded them for easy reference. Just be happy I stopped before I scenting them... Elle Woods lives in uncomfortable parts of my psyche.

So now I it's time to get my glue on. For this I am testing each group in terms of Smell, Consistency, Application, and Set Time.

...Stay tuned for results!

Edited November 9, 2011 by Breadcrab

[i_was_like_you]

After all of my troubles with the spindly bits that pass for arachnid legs on so many of Dr. Loveless..err, Ramos' crew, I'm seriously considering upgrading adhesive substances, like what you're pseudo-scientifically testing for us.

I'd recommend a brand or type of glue, but every time I do, that brand stops working for the models I have, in some cases causing models that have been together for years to shed a limb.

Edited September 3, 2012 by i_was_like_you
models are no longer metal...now plastic.

[Spoon]

Good read, as a fellow Resser player I look forward to seeing some of your painting. If you ever hit a spot where you get stuck in the modeling or painting process I will be glad to help, just hit me up with a PM. I work in a game store that does how-to-put-them-together demos, and I've done it for a while. Keep at it!

[dsmiles]

Nice choice. I've been tempted by the Necropunks, myself, but I only run Kirai and Molly from the Ressers.

Also, if you can stomach a little extra cleaning, Gorilla Glue is the bomb. It foams up and fills gaps like you wouldn't believe (as long as you can get a good clamp on the mini), and the excess scrapes off fairly easily.

[Saint Norton]

Funny stuff. I need an "In case of science" drawer in my house...

[themurphyfella]

You forgot the Muahahahahaahah

[Breadcrab]

As always I am thrilled about the feedback!

... I'm seriously considering upgrading from adhesive substances, like what you're pseudo-scientifically testing for us, to solder.

[They're made of metal, and if I buy solder that is meant for their type of metal, everything should work out, right?]

Hey I actually know something about this!

So my dad is a sculptor, and for a spell he was doing small runs of pewter jewelery and casting figurines, (before either of us realized there was such a thing as miniature wargaming.) So here is what I learned from working with pewter, and my own experience with welding.

And you thought I just made silly captions all day...

The problem with pewter is it is a fairly soft and a low temperature melt. Why is that a problem? Well when you normally are brazing metals (what you're talking about doing) you want to get both surfaces hot enough to accept the brazing medium (in this case pewter solder wire.) Copper is usually pretty standard, and can usually get to about 1000°C or (2000°F) before it liquefies on you. Pewter on the other hand has a melt point of about 200°C (400°F.) So you don't get a big temperature window to work with before your awesome miniature turns into "molten slag"

Short version... If you want to use the solder you're going to have to be really careful, and do something called "stitching" which may be more frustrating than you're willing to deal with on the scale of Wyrd miniatures. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wf3ZmhXuOc]Here's a link to show what I'm talking about, and if you try it by all means tell me how it goes! I'm short a solder station at the moment.[/ame]

[i_was_like_you]

Although, it does not matter now, as Wyrd has, indeed, transitioned to plastic models. I was kinda disappointed that the Soulstone Miner's base mound of dirt and body were plastic, while the two drill pieces were still pewter. [On a side note, I've made a mold of the mound of dirt to use for its 30mm buried markers. Could even pull double duty as the Shafted markers for the Crooked Men or even make an interesting base for other models, too, like an Alp emerging from a tunnel.]

Edited September 3, 2012 by i_was_like_you
models are no longer metal...now plastic.

[Breadcrab]

I think "Somewhat Informative" is an apt descriptor of the whole "plog" there chief.

That said, If I had the soldering gear i would try it, however it's a royal pain with high detailed small scale work.

A quick note on the "Resin/Metal" debacle:

I like the weight of the metal. It feels classy. I worked with my dad with it, so i have all sorts of swirling nostolgia associated with it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH46SmVv8SU]Just be happy I didn't pull something from CATS[/ame]

All that aside. I honestly prefer dealing with resin. I like the weight and I'd rather repair a break than having tiny pewter bits get all gumby on me. Also there is the matter of those test results on the pewter bonding (which I am going to post as soon as I find where my daughter put my data)

As for company transitions from pewter to resin... well we aren't exactly in a heyday for tabletop gaming, so as long as the resin molds are tight and professionally done I am all for it.

[i_was_like_you]

Don't get me wrong, the resin portions of the Soulstone Miners are just as detailed, if not more so, than the pewter bits. It was the shock of seeing half the model, any Malifaux model, be resin for the first time. Resin just seems to imply cheap. If the models transition over to resin and their price dropped, I could accept that. GW has done that for a lot of their newer product. But to charge the same, if not more (the steady price creep for models of comparable ss cost and stats) for models isn't fun to see. I'd rather have paid an extra five dollars for Twisting Fates than to have seen the models go up by two dollars each.

Wargaming may not be in its heyday, but with smaller skirmish games like 'Faux and Warmahordes hitting the scene, it's certainly seeing serious improvement. With Malifaux's innovative Fate Deck mechanic, we've gotten so many people that would never have picked up a minis game before buying crews and giving it a go. Most of our LGSs can't keep good models in stock. I'm not denying that the economy is in the toilet, but when we can add to our crew at just ten or so bucks at a time, we as gamers, with or without families and other responsibilities, find a way to make it happen.

Edited September 3, 2012 by i_was_like_you
models are no longer metal...now plastic.

[Breadcrab]

You know how when you're working on something a long time, and your brain starts to make weird connections... 5 hours of testing glue bonds, and this happened.

Having found my notebook and prying myself away from the holiday game releases I am finally getting around to posting the results of my pseudo-science. So without the usual mucking about. Lets look at the setup:

Science often necessitates the use of a claw hammer.

Alright, so a quick recap:

I'm testing 6 bonding agents against ease of use, set time, and durability, in the attempts to find "the best one." I figure the best way to tackle this is category by category.

Ease of Use & Set Time: First and formost, glue stinks. Some of this stuff is fairly noxious, however I am using it a small enough quantity that I didn't really notice a distinct smell unless I set up too large a sample. For purposes of the test below I put a dime sized drop of glue on a piece of cardboard and used that as the basis for comments of "Fumes."

Standard Commercial Grade Superglue [Loctite]

This stuff has the consistancy of skim millk, it gets into everything, and it's cousin is used as a liquid bandage. We lovingly refer to this little guy as 2 part finger epoxy: One part finger, One part Clear runny fluid...instantly bonds forever! The fumes on this will burn the crap out of your nostrils and also light cottonballs on fire... Suffice to say, a bag of Nitrile gloves from the paint aisle is a two dollar investment against gluing yourself to everything/one you know...

The set time on untreated superglue is in the neighborhood of 20 seconds with adequate pressure/heat/humidity.

Things I learned the hard way: Capillary action, the ability of a liquid to flow against gravity where liquid spontanously rise in a narrow space such as between the hair of a paint-brush, in a thin tube, or in porous material such as paper or in some non-porous material such as liquified carbon fiber, or in a cell. So when you squeeze the forearm of your little metal dude against the elbow socket of your little metal dude, those little cracks? Those are your finger tips sucking up all that industrial grade loving... If it feels hot, that's your skin melting.

"I totes just got my Khador Behemoth in the mail. Assembling tonight. Let you guys know how it goes, lol. ;)"

Gorilla Super Glue [Rubberized Cyanoacrylate Compound]

Alright, instantly this stuff smells way way better...

...for glue.It still smells like glue. It will still make your face and throat go all Ralph Wiggums, so don't go nutty.

Tests are going great hon... just having tea with Mrs. Garret and Tutti.... on the Bagger 288

Despite starting off as a gel the set time on this stuff is physically numbing. if you put glue right on the model and stick the pieces together, you are going to be sitting there like a stool for over a minute. Good times. Unlike the regular superglue though, once it starts to set up it does so pretty quick. I've started setting a sample aside and mixing it with a wire for a couple seconds till it starts to harden. It's the same principle as when you change your brake-pads. [Cue flame mail from the motor-heads]

The sportos, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, and dickheads – they all still think I'm a righteous dude.

GreenStuff [Reaper Brand]

This stuff looks pretty innocuous in the tube untill you try to mix them, then you might as well be trying to recreate choice scenes from "Ghost" with the Tar Monster from Star Trek.

Why won't you be my Patrick Swayze?

Misgivings aside, It wasn't really designed for this, like a McWorld commercial though it can happen and is stable enough to hold a light weight after about 5 minutes.

e-600 Metal [industrial Rubber Cement]

Hey cool, Mustard gas! Even in small doses this stuff smells like your grade school rubber cement gone rancid. You remember Venkman collecting ectoplasm in the library? Yeah... exactly that. 10 minutes and a fumigator later... we're ready to move on.

Liquid Nails [Household Do-All]

Well, it smells like cardboard and feels like gritty toothpaste. I had it holding it's own right away.

JB Kwik [Cold Welding]

This two part deal is made in Texas, and one of Maverickman's buddies uses it to field repair his engine block... so this has to be solid.

Let us discourse like gentlemen on the nature of hornless Texan exports.

Well it smells like a scrapyard, and even has notes of dog urine. Tangy ones. Other than that not bad. It has a definite grit too it, imagine working with the insides of a Stretch Armstrong. In miniature scale.

"Hey guys is that Nine Inch Nails? I love...wait... why is Se7en on? Guys?"

Hmmm took that too the darkest possible place... anyway, The stuff adheres pretty well, goes on like spackle and in a little under a minute it is holding on solidly.

Durability:

I decided to test this in the two most common ways I see minis break. 1. Falling off the table 2. Regular handling and being placed and removed from their case. So the shock test was really easy. I dropped the samples of equal weight from 33 inches and marked how many drops it took them to split. Stress was a little harder. I made a rig out of some wire and 10 gram nuts/magnets to make sure there was no human differential between tests. Also, the samples are each connected with a 2mm x 4mm contact point. So here are the results averaged after 3 runs.

It would probably be easier to just make meth in my freetime...

Standard Commercial Grade Superglue [Loctite]

ShockTest: 2x

StressTest: 310g

Gorilla Super Glue [Rubberized Cyanoacrylate Compound]

ShockTest: 1x

StressTest: 500g

GreenStuff [Reaper Brand]

ShockTest: 20x

StressTest: Never broke but bent in half at the contact point after a 24hour set.

e-600 Metal [industrial Rubber Cement]

ShockTest: 20x

StressTest: 10g

Liquid Nails [Household Do-All]

ShockTest: 6x

StressTest: 15g

JB Kwik [Cold Welding]

ShockTest: 4x

StressTest: 310g

Hmmm... so fast results... glues are either resistant to shock or stress. It looks like the harder the bond your glue is making, the more brittle it becomes. Like the difference between a dinner glass and my 2 year olds tumbler. I can live with these results. JB weld is cool, but a little rough on your hands, and the regular superglue is good, I just with there was a way to make them dry faster.

BUT WAIT you say... there is a whole internet full of ways to make your glue dry up faster than Donovan at a grail party. Well, lets see what sort of damage we can do!

"I cannot disapprove of what you are doing any harder."

Edited November 22, 2011 by Breadcrab

[dsmiles]

Interesting results. I never would have pegged Reaper brand GreenStuff as being the most durable. I'll have to look into that.

[Breadcrab]

...

Before you even ask, "Skyrim and Saints Row."

Ooooh Moira.. you little minx you...

So, where were we? Oh... putting these blasted things together. A quick note on past results. The green stuff you have to remember sets over time, so the longer it sets, the more brittle its going to become. My bad. But lets be honest, I am not formally trained in doctor science, nor doctology.

So, to recap, there a ton of bonding options out there, and I know I could say with a ream of evidence that the ONLY option to stick your minis together is coconut milk and egg yolks, but there is a reason they don't sell two part coconut-milk, yolk apoxy at the hobby store. (Yes, hobby store... because I live in the 50's apparently.)

Gussy it up all you want man, If you put that Ice Pillar on the treasure token I am going to dump a Josta down your pants.

So continuing on here, cyanoacrylate is just dandy, but there is a distinct problem we can have all run into here.

Try typing a blog entry with Mortimer's shovel glued to your index finger... lets see how fast YOU update.

There has GOT to be a way to get this stuff to dry faster right? Well a quick poll of the internet reveals a gamut of methods that frankly, make coconut milk and egg yolk sound way less crazy.

So Three drops of blood... and spin counterclockwise.. then Hecubus will appear before me.. and hold the f-ing thing together while it dries.

Here's a quick mythbusting history lesson: In 1942, a couple dudes were trying to make a clear plastic for cheap gun sights. What they did instead is glue "man to metal, sight barrel to man, site barrel to table, man to table, man to man...," basically everything but "make clear plastic lens that doesn't instantly bond to my bidness."

Seeing an opportunity for the burgeoning "adhesion play" fetish market, they sold the rights to Loctite, and 'lo super glue was born. Contrary to popular belief, It was not developed as a medical adhesive, and wasn't passed for medical use in America till 1998 when they released "Dermabond" which was a slightly different formula that didn't irritate skin as badly. The most common use of cyanoacrylate was in veterinary medicine, mending turtle shells, stitching lesions, and occasionally to help setting bone.

Did somebody say Donkey Bone?

So weeding out some of the more crazy theories, lets try to stick to the ones at least somewhat grounded in fact

1: Use a thicker Glue.

Sounds fair.. Thicker glues would have less water/alcohol to dissolve, and probably set faster.

When the nozzle is clogged... do not squeeze the bottle to "unjam it..." Unless ectoplasmic bukkakke is your bag...

2: Spit

Gross. I spend all day telling my kids NOT to put things in their mouth, now here I am sticking something that was until recently "mostly lead bits" in my craw and giving it the ol' Jolly Rancher. I understand the theory is that because cyanoacrylate bonds instantly to skin you are actually scraping dead cells off your tongue to act as an accelerant, but what would my kids think?

"What a hypocrite! TIME TO MAKE IT RAIN!!!"

3: Baking Soda

Makes a fair amount of sense here. it's a superfine powder that absorbs liquid rapidly and gives your glue something to cling onto. Hell, sounds great. Lets throw it in the pile!

Cocaine? What Cocaine?

4: Fixer

What is this black magic in a bottle?! I have heard nothing but terrible reviews about this stuff, "It weakens your bonds!" "It eats paint!" "It will sneak into your house at night and steal all your rum!" Well, I spent 5 bucks on a bottle, and damnit I'm going to try it out.

It's Public Enemy, Number One! Women Cry For It - Men Die For It! The Sweet "Pill" That Makes Life BITTER! Adults Only! Drug Crazed Abandon! Sin - degradation - vice - insanity! SEE youthful Glue victims - what actually happens!

So I ran a series of five tests just to make sure I got fairly reliable data, and also I wanted to clean as much human error out as possible. I averaged the drying times of the glues, and then did a manual 'break test" to get a feel for how brittle the glue was after a 24hour set, just to see if there was a difference between all these crazy "dryin' methods."

Here are the results.

Hunh. Well.. that's crappy. So short version... ANYTHING you add to the glue to make it dry faster is in fact going to dramatically weaken your bond. What really got me was that the "spray fix" that I was told would have it's way with my mini like Ender Wiggins in the shower with Bonzo, seems to be no worse for my little mans than regular "licking and sticking."

So all this effort, and what have we found? Just do whatever you're most comfortable with, and don't harsh on someone elses style.. unless of course you know a weirdo from the internet

Next time:

Pinning...for the fjords

Edited January 11, 2012 by Breadcrab

[TeeCee]

interesting results, funny comments, and not bad testing methods... I LIKE IT! :1_Happy_Puppet2:

keep it up and i'll keep reading.

[daemonkin]

I have to say I'm a spitter!

Was told a rumour that it helps the glue dry faster. I also use a spray fixer when the need arises and only on the most dire circumstances.

Another trick is greenstuff with supergule added to it and then the piece is inserted (ooh err missus) into both GS and glue and is allowed to set. I have had a lot of success with this.

D.

[ghostwalker]

Job - no check . Kids x5 check. Other half- check (though inspiring female gamer). Normal amount of talent - check. Ability to collapse in stupor at other painters abilities - check (actualy desiring to consume their brain to absorb their talents).

So thats me loving this plog and definately following it as you continue your trial and tribulations over the time ahead. Milk jug idea was awesome but i wonder if the uk 4 pinter milk cartons will work just as well hmmmm.

As to glue, i use something called vitalbond. It comes in thick or thin variety and works fine....well fine unless your 7 year old tests the aerodynamic capabilities of a 1st run thunderhawk gunship (you know the all metal comes in a wooden box variety). Apparently about 20lbs in weight hitting the floor at speed is more than any contact glue can take, even with 6 miles of brass rod, 7 packs of green stuff support and the blood of several hundred 1 week old sable/white collie pups (they're just cuter).

[Crooligan]

Loving the blog dude. Gonna have to make me a ghettojug. Pure genius.

RE: Glue.

I use normal superglue gel but after putting the glue on both parts i put a tiny bit of blu-tak inbetween the pieces then put them together. Not only does the blu-tak hold the parts together a little while the glue sets, but the glue kind of dessicates the blu-tak into a sort of resin. Don't know how or why, but it seems to work.

PS: Old blu-tak seems to work better. Full of paint and wallpaper and dust, etc. New stuff from a packet rather than found at the back of a drawer, that's still blue rather than grey, not so good. Go figure:)

[MudgeBlack]

Thank you for the laughs, I look forward to more entries. (Gonna have to make me a ghetto jug)