Timing for Spells cast into melee

[flightmek25]

Greetings, Wyrd-os!

While playing Malifaux this weekend (after an unwanted hiatus), some rules discussions have arisen and I was wondering if any of you could assist. Below is the primary one I am having trouble with.

Casting into Melee

The rules for magic clearly state that an attack spell follows "the basic rules for that type of attack." Heeding this, I assume that when a caster targets a model engaged in melee with a ranged spell (with the "gun" symbol"), he/she will have to take the necessary steps to resolve the attack as any ranged assailant would.

Am I right? If so, please continue..

Here is where it gets fuzzy for me. What about the timing? My guess is that it goes something like this:

Ramos targets a Gamin that is in melee range of a Steampunk Arachnid with his spell, Electrical Fire. Since the Gamin is in melee range of the spider, Ramos must first make a WP > 10 check. He succeeds! Next he must figure out who the spell will hit, so he flips a card for each model. The Gamin gets a 2 and the Arachnid gets a 5. The Gamin is the official "target" and Ramos can continue casting the spell as normal.

Is this correct? If not, please explain. I have been looking on the forum for quite some time now without any luck...

[goblyn13]

The Willpower check was thrown out early on in Malifaux and has been completely removed as of the Rules Manual (<--- You can download an electronic copy from the left, but not printable). All that would be needed is for you to perform the following steps for the spell

1) Activate Ramos, and declare that you will be casting Electrical Fire on the Gamin.

2) Check Range and successfully cast the spell, including any cheating.

3) Flip cards to determine who the target will be (1 for ht 1 and 2 models and 2 for ht 3+)

4) After determining who will be hit, resolve the remainder of the attack by having the target flip for the Resist.

5) Resolve the Damage (If any)

[flightmek25]

goblyn,

I see. The WP rule is better removed, I think. It's good they did that.

So it's exactly the same process as casting a spell normally except for the interim "which guy gets hit" flip in between success and RST.

Thanks for your help, man. My headache is gone now.

-flightmek

[ZiggyQubert]

How do things like harmless factor in to that order?

would you only have to take a harmless check (or other targeting restriction) if the initial target was harmless or do you take it after final target is determined?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The Willpower check was thrown out early on in Malifaux and has been completely removed as of the Rules Manual (<--- You can download an electronic copy from the left, but not printable). All that would be needed is for you to perform the following steps for the spell

1) Activate Ramos, and declare that you will be casting Electrical Fire on the Gamin. Measure Range.

2) Flip cards to determine who the target will be (1 for ht 1 and 2 models and 2 for ht 3+)

3) Successfully cast the spell, including any cheating.

4) The target then performs its Resist Duel.

5) Resolve the Damage (If any)

I had to fix this. Goblyn had it in the incorrect order.

And to answer your question Ziggy, once the target has been determined if there are any targeting restrictions or conditions, they need to be observed as normal.

Edited September 13, 2011 by WEiRD sKeTCH
Minor tweak

[poulpox]

goblyn,

I see. The WP rule is better removed, I think. It's good they did that.

So it's exactly the same process as casting a spell normally except for the interim "which guy gets hit" flip in between success and RST.

Thanks for your help, man. My headache is gone now.

-flightmek

Don't forget also that the defending model sees its Df stat increased by 1 per opponent in the melee

[sharpobjects]

I had to fix this. Goblyn had it in the incorrect order.

For clarification; You have check range on line#3 after the actual target is determined but I dont see check range on line #1. It may be implied but I just want to be sure.

Also, since the actual target of the spell may change from your intended target because of the models in melee, and you then check range to the actual target, if the actual target is now out of range of the spell, does that cost an AP?

The reason I ask is that since the past explanation of models in melee is that they are not all standing around, they are moving and fighting so that is the reason why a range strike/spell could hit any of them. I have always measured to the intended target (in all cases that would be the closest model to me that is in melee). If that target is in range, I then flip the cards to find out the actual target but I never have re-measured to the now actual target model.

As an example, you have 3 models in melee. Two enemy and one friendly. The closest model is 9.5 inches away from you and your using a 10 inch range strike/spell. The third model in melee is actualy 11.5 inches from you. If the third model becomes the actual target, then the attack misses?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

For clarification; You have check range on line#3 after the actual target is determined but I dont see check range on line #1. It may be implied but I just want to be sure.

From page 44 of the Rules Manual:

The attacker declares the target of the ranged attack, and then flips one Fate Card for the target and each model in the target’s melee range as well as any enemy model engaged with the target, regardless of LoS to those models.

Also, since the actual target of the spell may change from your intended target because of the models in melee, and you then check range to the actual target, if the actual target is now out of range of the spell, does that cost an AP?

Yes. But it still can be hit even if it is out of range.

Fixing my initial post.

Edited September 13, 2011 by WEiRD sKeTCH
Clean up.

[sharpobjects]

I see the changes you recently made to the order under post#5. Thanks, all is good

[flightmek25]

Sketch,

Thanks for the correction. My wife and I were debating that. She believed that it should follow the steps the way goblyn wrote them - thus requiring players to "front load" their spells and risk the danger of annihilating their own models accidentally - but I thought the target should be decided first. Now I have one-up on her.

Thanks again for everyone's help and also for those who added questions for more explicit scenarios.