AgentRock Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 In the interest of a discussion of general guild-type tactics, I'm interested to kick off a thread discussing the merits of the various "fodder" level guild minions, ie Witchlings, Death Marshals, Latigo Pistoleros, etc. Obviously, the Austringer is pretty much king of this low point value minion, but I'm interested to hear people's take from there. Death Marshals are what I am most familiar with. Slow to die and hard to wound plus their high wp makes them pretty solid all around. The opponent has to commit an actual effort to drag them down, and opponents can be in for a pretty nasty surprise when the slow to die action results in a shot that can cost them a pretty expensive piece. It's anecdotal, but on the board next to me at Gencon I watched a DM kill Avatar Kirai with his slow to die action, and it done my guild heart proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Guild Guard ! Why is everyone forgetting the guild guard ! Run to the enemy... make Lucius order him to strike at a CB 8 with 2/3/4 and a possible critical strike. Pretty nice dmg output. The on their pistols dmg flip makes them a solid shot even with a cb of 4. Combine their meleepower with the occasional inspiring swordplay or make them charge using obey, and you have an outstanding killer for mere 4ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Guild Guard ! Why is everyone forgetting the guild guard ! Run to the enemy... make Lucius order him to strike at a CB 8 with 2/3/4 and a possible critical strike. Pretty nice dmg output. The on their pistols dmg flip makes them a solid shot even with a cb of 4. Combine their meleepower with the occasional inspiring swordplay or make them charge using obey, and you have an outstanding killer for mere 4ss. alot of people in my area put them down too... but combined with that potential cb 10 strike with criticals is harsh even for masters! and that 1 point of armour makes them so much more survivable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Alleycat Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I still say witchling stalkers are king. Scout and hunter means they move fast,and can shoot anything no matter where they hide. Magic resistant does some help. magic weapons on a four point model is insanely good as well. Add in the explosion they get when they die. Also consider that they can remove tokens and effects on your models with a spell,and interrupt other peoples spells. this includes poison,paralyzed,slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 What about Guild Hounds. They are fast and cheap. Lady Justice can buff them just as easily as other models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentRock Posted August 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I guess I always sort of just considered the Guild Hounds as more of a situational use model. They're useful for games where you need lots of little objective grabbers, but not having a ranged attack puts them behind the others in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonRaven Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Guild Hounds are very tricky for objective missions imo, as they become Insignificant if they go outside of 3" of the other Guild Hound. IMO if you want to use Hounds for objective purposes, you'll need 3-4 to allow them to leapfrog towards objectives. Being able to plant dynamites from the first turn = hmmmmmm. Of the other basic troops, I'm a fan of the Witchling Stalkers, but I feel they really come to their own if you have Sonnia Criid as a Master, simply because she can create new ones. Move a Stalker outside of melee range of an enemy group, target the Stalker with Flame Burst, cheat such that you can inflict Severe damage, burn enemy with Blast markers, then for the finishing act, cast Violation of Magic to turn the Stalker (who should have taken 5 wounds) into another Witchling Stalker... Would we count Watchers as 'fodder troops'? For 3ss, they are useful for buffing Hoffman, sniping using Machine Puppet, and can help clean the Fate Deck. Compared to Guild Hounds, I find them a little better for objectives as they can operate independantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Would we count Watchers as 'fodder troops'? For 3ss, they are useful for buffing Hoffman, sniping using Machine Puppet, and can help clean the Fate Deck. Compared to Guild Hounds, I find them a little better for objectives as they can operate independantly. As far as "fodder" troops are concerned, I think the question is more related to basic grunt types to form a cheap and cheerful bulk of your force. I can't really see fielding Watchers in any real numbers (although I wouldn't mind a second) - I do find it highly tempting to take it with just about any Guild list however, as its great for grabbing objectives, deck management and assists shooting (which lots of Guild lists are built around)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I think if we are talking purely fodder, the desperate merc is a great choice. assuming it dies soon enough, you get a free healing flip out of them. Can't beat 2ss as the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I perosnally never leave home without 1 Witchling in any guild list, just for (1) Dispel Magic. This ability is so versatile that it comes in handy at least once per game. Last tournament we were playing shared Contain Power and I was facing Saemus. Saemus escaped after he managed to get his Excessive Bleeding trigger off on LJ. If I hadn't dispelled it I would've lost that game (we flipped for it at the end of the game, just to see what would've happenened - I got the black joker). And I can name many more examples, enough to fill several pages probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 ..., cast Violation of Magic to turn the Stalker (who should have taken 5 wounds) into another Witchling Stalker... A severe only does 3 damage to a Witchling, since he has Magic Resistant 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 A severe only does 3 damage to a Witchling, since he has Magic Resistant 2. Beat me to it. Witchling Stalkers are on top for me as well. Scout and Hunter is huge, they're cheap, and Sonnia can make more. They have a free anti-magic shell, excellent close combat stats, average range and a magic weapon. What's not to like there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&TBoy Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Stalkers...the way of the future Im currently painting my second blister of them, Im planning on trying an all stalker force at some point....not sure how it will go though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 The reason I mention Dogs is that they have a very high threat range when kept close to each other. Teamed with Lady Justice and a Govenors Proxy they can be a pretty potent non-Ortega Alpha Strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Personally I always favored Death Marshals to stalkers. But I admit with the new handler stalkers are looking better. Honestly with AJustice I think we will see a lot more Guild Grunt lists. Her +fate buff it gonna be pretty cool with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerealkiller195 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 to be fair we should probably do best fodder 3-4ss, 5-6ss and 6-8ss, not including totems. 3-4ss: Guild Hounds pros: relatively cheap, guardsmen, fast (both move and "on the trail", "blood scent"), companion cons: insignificant, "trained in pairs" you obviously want to run them in pairs due to all the abilities that they gain in packs. They come in with companion for mini alpha strike capabilities. Witchling Stalkers pros: hunter, scout, magical weapon, auto critical strike (melee), "immolating demise", "dispel magic" say goodbye to insignificant, poison, slow, paralyze etc. cons: "immolating demise" in a bad spot. love these guys, though maybe i'm biased by playing Sonnia... hunter and scout can keep them relatively safe from fire for a turn or two. Get them into a good position and you can charge from places the enemy couldn't even dream of! due to all the "bad" effects as mentioned above "dispel magic" is a great underused spell. Afraid of hamelin? let him make you insignificant dispel off with these guys and continue with what you were doing. Guildguard pros: armor, to pistol damage cons: doesn't have as many abilities as Witchlings though armor has actually pulled me through a few rough spots. though these guys don't seem "fancy" they shouldn't be underestimated. Armor is a great thing to have as it will usually leave you with 1 wound left. This puts the opponent in a rough spot, does he want to activate a unit JUST to kill a 1 wound model? or do something else more important? either way its a win for you. Armor usually also leaves the guardsmen at 1 wd, perfect for violation of magic if you are running sonnia. Desperate Mercs pros::"comes cheap" need i say more? a 2ss model that has ton of uses. Need someone to take the heat running to objective? Turn into a Witchling Stalker? Need a healing flip badly? Burn an activation burner? If they are hurt they get better! cons: must be sacrificed at the end of turn 3 unless you pay a ss, never expect them to even get this far... all my thoughts are in the pros/cons area, cheap activation burners to see where your enemy is dedicating forces. In a punch you won't feel bad firing/casting into combat Latigo? Santiago pros:? cons? Death Marshals pros:hard to wound, slow to die, critical strike on BOTH weapons though only his pistol has ghosted suit. cons:haven't used them yet so cannot comment The more cards you make your enemy mill from his deck the better chances of knocking out their high to mid cards and force them to use low damage. This effect is great because you "use up" all of your opponents good cards. The only downside is when a red joker comes out... but c'est la vie.. death marshals are good in shooting AND combat, so they are pretty well balanced for a 4ss model. Watcher pros: 7" move coupled with flight, can leave combat without gteting hit. Far reaching "attack" that is used to debuff enemy abilities. Can help "top deck/cycle" cards. cons: no real damage output more of a support model but for 3ss one of the cheaper options for guild. when i first used this model i thought it was just OKAY, thinking that why would i want to use his deck cycling ability when i have better models to activate. But then i noticed the model has a bunch of nifty little abilities coupled with great movement/flight. need to contest objectives? fly in the watcher last second, need to tie up something that shoots/cast? run it in force him to activate then run out to leave the model open to your guild. *more to be added later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamiZero Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) Death Marshals are still my favorite of the 4ss and under crowd for Guild. Hard to Wound has saved them more than enough times from ending up dead too early and Slow to Die combined with an extremely effective range attack with auto Critical Strike almost has always guarantied that they will get their revenge. Also, if you can ever manage to Pine Box a model such as Teddy, you won't regret it. Just save a 13:crows for such occasions. Edited August 14, 2011 by YamiZero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonRaven Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 A severe only does 3 damage to a Witchling, since he has Magic Resistant 2. Damn. I guess it still serves as a useful node for casting Flame Burst to generate the 3x Blasts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 How do you pine box a teddy? They are immune to influence (exception being if in 12" of dora)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Theoretically guild guard are good objective deny models if you have two move one forward past a enemy obj but in range of rear ones "cordon" range. Rear one cordon's and does something else. Outside of flying models you have a stop gap that prevents the opponent getting to their obj. It can be broken up but requires the opponent wasting ap on killing front guild guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamiZero Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 How do you pine box a teddy? They are immune to influence (exception being if in 12" of dora)? Haha, I totally didn't realize that. I Pine Box'ed my buddy's Teddy and he let it happen, guess he thought I knew more about his Pandora drawback than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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