Student of Conflict Companion Viktoria(s)

[aarmy]

Just picked up my Viktoria box at Gen Con, and after a run through of the rules I want to confirm the following.

Student of Conflict has the Companion (Master) trait. As both Viktoria have Master as a Keyword, can I activate the Student and declare both Viktorias in the Companion Pool?

I think the answer is yes, but wanted to make sure.

[marshimartian]

No, Companion(Master) refers only to the connected master, both Viks can't be connected to one totem (as far as I know)

[Hookers]

No, Companion(Master) refers only to the connected master, both Viks can't be connected to one totem (as far as I know)

what?

why not?

[edonil]

I believe that's exactly how it goes...they are both Masters, after all...

[marshimartian]

Forgot to mention though, since Viks have companion with each other, you can still activate all 3 simultaneously, but Student doesn't have companion with both Viks

[Adran]

The Victorias count as 1 master between them. The Totem would be connected to both of them. They can't each have a seperate conected totem.

[marshimartian]

The Victorias count as 1 master between them. The Totem would be connected to both of them. They can't each have a seperate conected totem.

but they don't have any rule that says that, like dreamer/lcb do, they only have a rule allowing you to hire two

[Calmdown]

Nothing on the Viks says "they count as the same master". The Vik rule "Sisters" states that when you hire one as a master, you "begin the game with" the other. You can only ever hire one master in a scrap. At no point do you hire two Viktorias.

Although both of them count as Masters as they have the Master trait, when you build your list, it looks like this:

Viktoria

[Totem]

[Minions]

As the other Viktoria is not in your list when you build it, it cannot hire a totem, and as such as the totem is only connected to one master - the one you originally hired (edit: and as such, you must be sure that you declare which you hired as your master - since when it dies, so does the totem).

If somehow you could get another totem (you cant currently) then it would be legal for you to connect a totem to the second Vik, since she is a Master by trait.

All of that is separate to the actual question, though.

So, with that out of the way - as far as companion goes, the trait says "Companion (Master)" and as both of the Viktorias have the Master trait, it can companion with either. It does not companion with "your crew's master", it companions with the trait.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Calmdown

[edonil]

Sounds correct, Calmdown.

[Adran]

I disagree

The sisters rule states that crews hiring this model as a master begin the game with 2 viktorias.

So I hire Viktoria as my master. I begin the game with two in play. I can end the game with a different two in play (due to their deaths and casting another one twice) but at all points through the game I will have had my master in play. So I don't believe I would have ever lost an attached totem

When picking bodyguard as a scheme, I don't have to pick which one of the two I bodyguard, the two combined are my master.

The Slaughter stratergy calls it a multiple model master.

I can't offer a better justification than that, but I've not seen anythign to suggest otherwise. The rules don't state I hire one, and the other shows up, it says when I hire Viktoria I get two models

[Calmdown]

I disagree

The sisters rule states that crews hiring this model as a master begin the game with 2 viktorias.

So I hire Viktoria as my master. I begin the game with two in play. I can end the game with a different two in play (due to their deaths and casting another one twice) but at all points through the game I will have had my master in play. So I don't believe I would have ever lost an attached totem

When picking bodyguard as a scheme, I don't have to pick which one of the two I bodyguard, the two combined are my master.

The Slaughter stratergy calls it a multiple model master.

I can't offer a better justification than that, but I've not seen anythign to suggest otherwise. The rules don't state I hire one, and the other shows up, it says when I hire Viktoria I get two models

No, it states that when you hire one, you begin with the other in play. The fact that it is not part of your list should be obvious from the "begins in play" part. You can only hire a totem for each master (hiring rules, pg 71) and at the time you hire totems, you only have one master (your intial Vik). A totem may only be connected to one master (totem rules, pg 10). And when the connected master is removed, the totem is removed (totem rules, pg 10).

You're confusing the hiring of a master, and the master trait. Also there is no concept in Malifaux of "my master". The concept of a master only applies to your list during crew selection because you have to hire exactly 1 (for a scrap). Once the game begins, a master is just a member of your crew that has the master trait, which lets it use soulstones and makes it interact with certain strategies or schemes because it has the trait. A totem does not stay in play as long as you have a master in play, it stays in play as long as its connected master is in play. The second the original Viktoria that you hired during the hire crews stage dies, the totem that you also hired in that stage, which is connected to that specific Viktoria, is removed from play.

As an aside, the fact that the strategy calls Viks a 'multiple model master' seems very ambiguous, yes. That should be much better worded. It's not really a multiple model master at all since the two models aren't in any way related other than one puts another in play. It would be more clearly worded, though less succinct, if it referenced "a master that, when hired, puts multiple models into play" or something to that effect.

Of course, all of what I have said is only correct by the word of the rules. It's entirely possible that this has been errata'd somewhere.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Calmdown

[Headcase2]

A very long time ago it was ruled that the totem is attached to both Victorias. If you do a search on <Victoria + totem> you should get a post with replies from TheBugKing and Weirdsketch.

But like I said, it's almost ancient by internet forum standards.

[marshimartian]

So first, Viks are one master for purposes of strategies and schemes, ruled here:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23067

Back to the original question, we've always played that since generic totems are Totem(Master), that Companion (Master) corresponds only to the connected master. But if that's not the case, in a brawl, say could viks, student, tina, and essence all activate simultaneously via companion?

[Headcase2]

I don't think so. It's been stated before that the intent of "Companion (Master)" was that the totem can companion with whatever it's attached to. This was important for Henchmen, as they can take a totem (even when not being used as a master) and then companion with it.

[marshimartian]

I don't think so. It's been stated before that the intent of "Companion (Master)" was that the totem can companion with whatever it's attached to. This was important for Henchmen, as they can take a totem (even when not being used as a master) and then companion with it.

That was my thought when I first answered this thread, but it seems everyone else thinks it's Companion (Master [trait]) not Companion ([connected] Master)

So regardless of Viks, this is the root question, and if it's Companion (Master [trait]) does that mean that Henchmen can't Companion their totem?