Obey question.

[Dark Alleycat]

Now I know that you cant do a ability that is guarenteed to kill a model with lure. What about with Obey? Like say for instance..you use an obey on a model like a stuffed piglet for instance..and use it to cast bacon bomb.

Does that work?

What about say, obeying a hollow waif to move outside of the 10 inchs and thus making it sacrifice itself. Or like papa loco at one wound,making a melee dynamite strike which would kill him.

[Ratty]

Er.. put on your reading specs silly inferior cat thing....

Target non-Master model immediately makes a (1) Action or Charge controlled by you. The Action selected may not cause the model to be killed or sacrificed as part of the Action. This spell may be cast once per activation.

[Braindead]

Ratty is the Rules Wrangler and his word is good.

Changed my mind. I'll need to check the spells (no book). If there is a chance that the action might not inflict wounds (even if the only way to save yourself is a BlackJoker(0)) then it is an option for Obey.

Unless it has changed (and I've been away for a bit) the important bit is 'may not cause'. I'm not as sure on this as I once was.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Braindead

[Dark Alleycat]

Ok,so if it would be a for sure kill it would not work. What about say..Pere Ravage. He has a trigger on his flame breath that can sacrifice him. So from what I am reading,he could make the flame breath attack,but not activate the trigger that would kill him right?

[Ratty]

Ok,so if it would be a for sure kill it would not work. What about say..Pere Ravage. He has a trigger on his flame breath that can sacrifice him. So from what I am reading,he could make the flame breath attack,but not activate the trigger that would kill him right?

That sounds right.

[Braindead]

I'm wondering if the reading of Obey has been altered while I was away. The description Ratty posted seems to be contra to what I'm saying. I may be using an old ruling. I will check when I wake up and have wi-fi again.

Mind you, someone will have answered more affirmitavely by then.

[Ratty]

The version I posted was directly off the v2 card for Perdita.

[Braindead]

OK, so I can still obey a model into a situation where it would take damage/wounds that would kill it provided it was not guaranteed? For example 1 wound left - action causes 1 damage to model if spell goes off - I still have the chance of the failingthe cast so I can obey.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Braindead

[ghostwalker]

My understanding is that you cannot do anything that would cause the model to be killed or sacrificed. So I would say no, it may lead to death so cant be done.

[magicpockets]

OK, so I can still obey a model into a situation where it would take damage/wounds that would kill it provided it was not guaranteed? For example 1 wound left - action causes 1 damage to model if spell goes off - I still have the chance of the failingthe cast so I can obey.

I know the ruling you're referring to and will try to did it out - both you and ratty are right with what you're saying. You amy not obey a model to take an action that would cause certain death itself but you can obey a model to take an action which causes death if there's a chance (no matter how small - even needing the black joker) that the action will fail.

*goes off to find thread using the search term "dustin hoffman"*

And here you go, confirmed by no less than three rules marshalls - http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11900

Edited May 20, 2011 by magicpockets
Search Fu Powers ;)

[Sliver Chocobo]

Now I know that you cant do a ability that is guarenteed to kill a model with lure. What about with Obey? Like say for instance..you use an obey on a model like a stuffed piglet for instance..and use it to cast bacon bomb.

Does that work?

What about say, obeying a hollow waif to move outside of the 10 inchs and thus making it sacrifice itself. Or like papa loco at one wound,making a melee dynamite strike which would kill him.

I might being a little thick here, but Lure killing? How?

The only ways I can think are

Lureing a model with 1Wd within 12" of Pandora

Lureing a then killing it with a melee strike

the first seems very situational

and the second requires a second duel and isn't a 100% garanteed to kill the target

And yeh can't kill a model with obey, (or lest the target of the obey)

However, can you obey somthing to attack a gamin, kill it, then the obeyed model dies when the gamin explodes?

[Truefaith]

Could I obey a lilitu to summon lelu? And then have my opponnt sac lilith or nekima and 2 blood counters?

[nilus]

Could I obey a lilitu to summon lelu? And then have my opponnt sac lilith or nekima and 2 blood counters?

No

Models able to summon or place models are not allowed to do this while controlled.

Page 13 of the rules manual

[Truefaith]

Ahh ok. I was thinking that would have been dumb good.

[magicpockets]

And yeh can't kill a model with obey, (or lest the target of the obey)

However, can you obey somthing to attack a gamin, kill it, then the obeyed model dies when the gamin explodes?

The action itself can't guaranteed the models death or sacrifice. Resulting effects after the action has been completed (such as Gamin blowing up) or death/sac effects where there is a chance it will not work (such as the result of a spell cast or winning combat duels) are allowed.

Could I obey a lilitu to summon lelu? And then have my opponnt sac lilith or nekima and 2 blood counters?

No

Models able to summon or place models are not allowed to do this while controlled.

Page 13 of the rules manual

Also, whilst you are controlling the model the other Nephs don't count as friendly models to it (otherwise you do something similar and obey a Brass Arachnid to sacrifice a friendly construct called Ramos )

[thatnicguy]

All this is specifically for obey, Yes? Forgive me I don't have my book one, it's out on loan, has it been said anywhere that these rulings apply to Marcus's alpha control ability? The forgiveness is requested because I can't even see the wording of his rules but iv been wanting to ask the q for a bit

[magicpockets]

All this relates to obey for Zoraida and Perdita (possibly also Hamelin the Rat Catcher Merc too iirc?) due to the wording on the card about sacrificing and being killed.

Alpha and Obey from Hamelin the Plauged are not subject to these rules as far as I know.

[Buhallin]

I might being a little thick here, but Lure killing? How?

The only ways I can think are

Lureing a model with 1Wd within 12" of Pandora

Lureing a then killing it with a melee strike

...

However, can you obey somthing to attack a gamin, kill it, then the obeyed model dies when the gamin explodes?

Luring someone off a cliff is always fun. I believe that if they don't have any way around it, you can Lure them into hazardous terrain as well.

Obeying something to hit something that explodes, like Gamin or Papa, should be fine. It's only the direct action itself that can't result in death.

[Buhallin]

Alpha and Obey from Hamelin the Plauged are not subject to these rules as far as I know.

Not 100% sure on this specific instance, but spells with the same name are identical regardless of which character they're on. Unless Hamelin has something that specifically changes the text of Obey (which I don't think he does) I'd consider its absence a misprint.

[magicpockets]

Not 100% sure on this specific instance, but spells with the same name are identical regardless of which character they're on. Unless Hamelin has something that specifically changes the text of Obey (which I don't think he does) I'd consider its absence a misprint.

He doesn't have Obey, he has a different trigger via Pipes which has the same effect - I just couldn't remember its name

[nilus]

Actually most of these rules are covered under controlled models. Obey, Pipes, Alpha are all ways models controll opponent players

And remember there is a PDF of the rules in the panel to the left of this forum.

[magicpockets]

Ahhh, cool. Thanks for that bud