Beating The Dreamer with Viks

[ChefsDad]

Hi there my friend and i are relatively new to the game and we are using the following 35ss lists:

Myself:

The Dreamer/LCB

Daydream x3

Coppelius

Teddy

Stitched Together x2

34ss

My mate:

Viks

Taelor

Bishop

Friekorps librarian

Ronin

30ss

Ive beaten him in every game, with varying degrees of success, the worst being 8 - 0 and the best being 8 - 5. What i want to know is how does the above list (with Bishop dropped for two more Ronin) smash my dreamer list. He usually takes one scheme too so he has 7 stones.

I think when he gets money he's gonna get the Freikorps box (which frightens me, i dont want to face Hulk Hogan with a Gun! ) but for now what tactics/schemes can he use to thrash me?

Im going to show him The Dreamer Tactica by (i think?) Karn, and the one on the wiki page which has helped me so he knows my tricks and can come up with a way to stop me, but Id like the wisdom of veteran viks players too please

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 14, 2011 by ChefsDad

[EnT]

Only played the Dreamer once, but a couple thoughts:

1) Not sure of his playstyle, but with the Outcasts it can be really easy to split up your crew a lot thanks to specialization and varied mobility (the Viks are fast, others not so much). This lets Dreamer pick him apart piece by piece; far better to stay somewhat close together so that everyone can jump on whatever you drop out.

2) I would absolutely drop bishop. I know not everyone agrees, but he doesn't do it for me. Add another Ronin, and maybe a convict gunslinger to put out some ranged fire. He might try making the gunslinger and librarian a center for a castle with the Viks, Taelor and to a lesser extent the Ronin staying w/in 8" of them in different directions as needed by the scenario. This way there's some fire support (in Rapid Fire) and healing generally available to everyone who might need it.

3) I usually try to keep one ronin safe and alive to summon another Vik if need be.

Just a few thoughts, although like I said, I'm not used to fighting th Dreamer, so I'm sure someone more qualified on here has better thoughts.

[Necromorph]

Splitting forces isn't always bad against the Dreamer, but it depends on the Dreamer list. If he's running a lot of big, nasty, Terrifying models, then you won't want to clump up, and splitting can actually help you pick your battles. It's all really situational though. I actually wouldn't clump every to be honest. Even if you split your forces, and keep half 6" (+/- depending on circumstance) in front of the other, one half will be able to react to the other getting bombed, and he probably wont be able to bomb all of your models at once. If you clump up, then he gets to force all of your models into melee at once.

Honestly, VonSchill and the 'Korps are a huge help to Mercs. They get +WP in duels and Schill's (0)Hard Ass ability gives you +4WP in Morale Duels (i.e. Terrifying). Not to mention he can tie something up in Melee as long as you need to, and then (0) Augmetic Jump out of combat when you're ready to deal with it. Also, all 'Korps models are pretty good in Melee and Ranged, plus thier armor, so they are very versatile in and of themselves.

Chompy bits and Teddy do some nasty things to most Mercs (given thier low-average Df), so you'll want to make sure you bait Chompy into combat with something less valuable so that you get to activate on him with a Vik or Taelor and crush his face (his Df and wounds are very manageable for any hard hitting melee...Vik+Sisters in Battle: Fury can 2 shot him with weak dmg 5 haha). Hell, if you're bringing Ronin, you could have 1 Vik die for the cause of wasting Chompy's activations, charge him with the other Vik, and then bring the other one back.

The big problem Mercs run into is their straightforwardness. The Dreamer is very good at making other crews play on His terms (to reference a post by Lalo) and there isn't a whole lot of trickery that Mercs can pull to counter that. Regardless what you do, you're going to get hit hard by a Dreamer crew. I feel like the name of the game is resource management. Not just stones, but models themselves. Some of your models ARE GOING TO DIE, you just have to accept that, set your models up in preparation for the nightmare bomb, and plan from a "counter-attack" perspective.

I'm rambling, but the fact of the matter is, it's a tough matchup, and every battle is going to be very dependant on circumstances. Also, he should be playing for schemes/strategies, not just to kill you, and he really should be running 2 schemes to maximize how many VP's he can get, if he needs more stones, then the 'Korps models will give him some more flexible point options.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Necromorph

[Serigala]

I haven't yet played the Dreamer personally but I have seen him played and heard enough about him to appreciate how difficult he can be to pin down.

However the bulk of this is generalised advice.

You might also want to look at the Wiki

http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/The+Viktorias

I completely agree with 2 more Ronin rather than Bishop. The Ronin have good mobility with Next Target and Run Through, and should be able to engage with your models to help out the Viks. The +flip on the damage they cause will also enhance the chances of getting a straight flip which can be cheated.

The Viks do benefit from a large soulstone cache. If you are going to throw them up against beasts like LCB then you want stones to use on defence, and then stones to throw on the attack to get combat over with as quickly as possible.

Has your opponent managed to master the movement options with Sisters in Spirit ? This is key to delivering one of the Viks into combat, and gives you a large threat range that should be able to catch out even highly mobile crews.

The Dreamer, if played well can be tough to beat, but the Viks certainly have the potential to do so.

[Necromorph]

Also agree with the Ronins...you'll need those activations, especially if you don't have any 'Korps yet.

Has your opponent managed to master the movement options with Sisters in Spirit ? This is key to delivering one of the Viks into combat, and gives you a large threat range that should be able to catch out even highly mobile crews.

The Dreamer, if played well can be tough to beat, but the Viks certainly have the potential to do so.

Tho, as I mentioned, the Dreamer is very hard to predict and counter/alpha strike. He can keep his whole crew buried until HE is ready to pop them out. Unless you can manage to kill the Dreamer and force his nightmares to pop. Unfortunately this requires a very stupid Dreamer player or an insanely fast crew (I've pulled it off with Collodi but that's about it).

Sisters in Spirit will work best if you keep one Vik generally away from the other. If one gets jumped on, the other Vik can pull her to safety (I would also STRONGLY suggest at least getting a 'Korps Librarian to heal said wounded Vik).

I also agree that the Viks have a good chance to beat the Dreamer, but it's going to be an uphill battle. Von Schill and his 'Korps are going to be big additions to the Viks.

[BigTed]

I have just started painting the Viks and have added a few extra merc models

I think the dreamer and co would be difficult to beat up on ( remember you dont have to kill any of the enemy to win) and from what I have read the only reliable way to get the buggers are to support your crew space them approx 3"-6" apart and in support of each other and try to get the dreamers stuff on the counterattack firing into combats if you need to.

good luck

[Ravager]

I played the Viks against a neverborn crew yesterday. The game could really go either way depending on whether the dreamer gets his alpha or if the viks can manage to (trick) him into getting melee range.

You may be able to do that by leaving a model in the open. Once he pops his nightmares, be in such a position that you can get into melee range with the dreamer once Nitemare uses his All Done trigger. This will be tough but the specialist ignores terrifying and can disrupt a mob. Can't hurt dreamer but may be able to lure him into jumping him.

Using Sisters in Spirit and the Whirlwind trigger can do wonders in your counter strike. Remember the Viks only need a mask to trigger whirlwind and you get a 1 in 4 chance to draw one, soulstone one or even cheat down (it activates as long as you tie the total). Her 2" melee is great for avoiding the annoying black blood damage too.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Ravager

[ChefsDad]

Interesting game last night. I messed up with chompy as he spread his crew out and i chose the reclaim malifaux mission, and had to bury my daydreams to save them from his slaughter strategy. Chompy came out, killed a ronin, then wasnt able to move far enough to get away.

He was umming and ahhhing about how to get the viks to him, and i showed him the sisters in spirit thing, which almost lost me the game. If it wasnt for the black joker and some stone burning, i would have been gone.

Spreading out seems to be a good option, and meant i had to really up my game so as not to be caught out.

Just got the von schill box...not looking forward to that!

[Amarel]

Honestly, it's going to be a massively uphill struggle for him and there are certain scenarios where you might as well call the win to LBC and just re-roll for an actual game (e.g Deliver the Message).

I've played Viks and Von Schill vs LBC enough to know that playing for a draw is often the best policy, and then hope that the LBC player makes a mistake. Taking out the first set of Daydreams early will prevent the upper hand being presented too soon and make a game out of it.