Another Newbie thread

[0-0-17]

Hi all

After a long procrastantion while I fill out my Infinity collection, I've finally taken the plunge into Malifaux, starting (probably unadvisably) with Pandora. I'm thinking of just starting with the starter box and Primordial magic, swapping to Lelu and Lilitu (hell I'd have gotten into Malifaux just for that mini) and/or a Poltergeist when I've got a few more games under my belt.

Any advise on taking on Perditia, since she's likely to be the first Master I come up against (handled by another newbie). I know Malifaux isn't about straight up violence but Perditia herself seems very intimidating to a newbie Pandora player.

Any other general advise is also welcome and a big thanks to Karn987 for the tactica

[NeverEnding]

definate abuse papa locos easily influenced rule. He only has wp 4 which drops to a two. Nino is a priority target but in general I focus on either takibg out perdita early or her crew and leave her stranded.

[Ratty]

One thing I will say is keep an eye out for Pandoras incite/pacify corridor. By this I mean look for enemy models you can incite off of to get you to your target and back into safety. The last thing you want to do is leave yourself out in the open when fighting Perdita.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Ouch. Perdita is Pandora's biggest counter. Lure is going to be your friend when playing against the Family and don't feel bad abusing it.

Now congratulations are in order for reading Karn's tactica because that is your best freind for a while. Just be ready to lose for a while till you get Pandora's will power duals figured out. But when you do you will make your friends very unhappy.

[karn987]

Well thank you for reading it 0-0-17, I hope it helped you out.

Lilitu will net you a lot of benefit in this situation, so make sure to keep her alive. Make good use of Lure + Double Take and drag models from her crew all the way back to Pandora and her crew.

The BIGGEST thing you need to remember is Pandora's trigger, you are going to need to make good use of this. Especially against Perdita, if you get a chance to nail Perdita with a Dementia and you can get the trigger, do it. Soulstone it as high as possible and for added assurance, get a Madness up next to her with PE active. But if you get this off, she is done. Just follow up and finish her off. But at the same time, if she catches you in the open, your done to. It's going to be a game of maneuvering and avoiding each other. Don't get ansy and jump the gun on your run on Perdita, bide your time but don't let her pick your crew apart.

Papa Loco is the lowest Wp she has, so make sure to take care of him when you get a chance. His Blasts will also do you in very quickly if your not careful.

This is a game where you want Sorrows, I suggest 2 for Pandora and keep them near her. Keep your eye open for any Blast weapons and take those out fast, but beyond that be ready to Battle Train up to Perdita, Walk once to drop the Sorrows next to her, and then go for the kill. Again, if you get that trigger off, she is dead. The negative flip alone on all her duels till she Rallies will cripple her. Be ready to have more models follow up if you need to because you really have to kill her once you make the run on her. Just remember, when she flees she is going to flee double her walk immediately for the Fallback move. Try to set things up so she will still be in your range and LoS at the end of this.

To further capitalize on this, make use of the Sorrows Doldrums and Lilitu's Paralyze spell to shut down her crew. Just disable them and deal with them at your leisure.

From there you read my tactica, I think you have everything you really need to make this happen. I would suggest just reviewing your abilities before you start, specifically Pandora and the Sorrows because those little Woes could easily win you the game if you wield them right

Edited April 22, 2011 by karn987

[Csonti]

(Gun fight now means she will show herself in the face from this spell!)

As far as I know the rewording of Gunfighter in the Rules Manual changed nothing in this aspect. Perdita's Pistol is not considered a melee weapon when she is the target of Self-Loathing.

[Ratty]

As far as I know the rewording of Gunfighter in the Rules Manual changed nothing in this aspect. Perdita's Pistol is not considered a melee weapon when she is the target of Self-Loathing.

It didn't change anything you can't get her to shoot herself in the head... It makes me sad.

*DAMN THEM GUILD*

[karn987]

As far as I know the rewording of Gunfighter in the Rules Manual changed nothing in this aspect. Perdita's Pistol is not considered a melee weapon when she is the target of Self-Loathing.

Damn I thought I read somewhere you could.... what the hell...I must be imagining things (or maybe wishing for them O.o). Oh well, honest mistake and fixed.

[micahwc]

Nino is widely considered to be one the biggest threats the Guild can bring to any table. Lilitu's Lure ability out distances Nino by 2 inches. Nino can pre-measure distance, if he is short by less than two inches than he is in range for Lure. To counter him this is what I would suggest, though it is card dependent. Cheat a mask to get double take, and repeat as much as possible. Feed Nino to Lelu. Nino will start taking wounds from failing WP duels if he is lured into range of Pandora's 12 inch death bubble. Lelu should have no problem killing him.

Papa Loco will hurt you badly if he gets close, whether he activates or is just killed. He has a pretty decent melee attack, which damages himself and if I remember correctly can do blast damage. Kill him without being near him, preferably when he is near his own people. Lilitu's 4 inch melee could be a possible way to take him out far enough away to keep him from killing all your models, but I think this would be a last ditch effort.

If you are playing with the twins than Santiago shouldn't be much of a problem. He has to get close to you to become a good threat, and most of his abilities don't kick in until he is at half wounds. Your Lelu/Lilitu twins should be able to kill him without much of a problem.

I have no experience with Francisco, as my package was mispacked. I traded the show girl that came with my Ortega set for a pair of sorrows my friendly Collette player had. I would imagine that he would be similar to Santiago, in that he has to get close to be a threat. Lelu should be able to take him down fairly easily.

Peredita herself will be the hardest thing for you to face. Some of your spells don't work as well against her. One thing to remember is that your 12 inch death bubble does not require line of sight. Abuse terrain. Pandora's spell which requires a WP test for every action taken is really effective with Peridita, because Peridita is fast, and will be taking at least 3 WP duels per turn.

I would suggest trying to set up a firebase, in which you lure your enemies to Lelu and Pandora. The firebase should be set up in a defendable position. If the enemy has to come through difficult terrain then this is even more effective, because many Neverborn ignore difficult terrain. A doppleganger copying Pandora's 12 inch death bubble would work well for this as well. Enemies lured within 12 inches will take damage from Pandora and the doppleganger, and then meet Lelu and Lilitu face to face. If you can do this to Nino, then you will have negated most of Peredita's ranged advantage.

A 25 point version of this list would be Pandora, Lelu and Lilitu, the doppleganger, and 3 extra soul stones. Lelu and Lilitu are a bargain at only 2 points more than a pair of young nephilim, because of the 4 wounds a turn they can heal on both. Lilitu can also heal other Neverborn, it doesn't have to be herself.

Lelu has an ability which automatically does 2 wounds to an enemy within 2 inches, no card flipping required, at the closing phase. This ignores Peredita's awesome defense. If she hurts him within 1 inch of herself, than she takes damage from black blood. If you can move him within 1 inch of her, than she will take at least 3 points of damage assuming he survives to the end of the turn. She only has 8 wounds total. Lelu's combat is high enough (I think with his bite if I remember correctly) that he will have a decent chance at hitting Peredita, even with her awesome defence. She will most likely have less soul stones than you because of her low cache. If she has more soul stones than she has less minions for you to worry about.

Edited April 22, 2011 by micahwc
editing

[0-0-17]

Thanks a tonne guys, that's really insightful (as was your tactica Karn987).

Going through everyone's abilities Lelu and Lilitu definitely seem the better choice over Candy and Kade, in fact except for objective grabbing, some added activation control and persuading Papa Loco to swallow dynamite I can't see a lot of use for Candy against them. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Is it worth trying to lure Papa Loco close to the others and then gently persuade him to kill himself? It seems viable to me on paper since that's a lot of blast damage to his own crew but good ideas on paper often don't translate. Has anyone tried this? Similarly is it possible to Lure friendly models because that seems to be a good way of squeezing some extra move onto Lelu to ensure he can charge any exposed gunners when he activates.

Final question I promise; I worry that a poltergeist is too short range to be very effective against the Ortegas but is a Primordial magic worth taking over the 2 extra SS?

Thanks again guys

[karn987]

Thanks a tonne guys, that's really insightful (as was your tactica Karn987).

Going through everyone's abilities Lelu and Lilitu definitely seem the better choice over Candy and Kade, in fact except for objective grabbing, some added activation control and persuading Papa Loco to swallow dynamite I can't see a lot of use for Candy against them. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Is it worth trying to lure Papa Loco close to the others and then gently persuade him to kill himself? It seems viable to me on paper since that's a lot of blast damage to his own crew but good ideas on paper often don't translate. Has anyone tried this? Similarly is it possible to Lure friendly models because that seems to be a good way of squeezing some extra move onto Lelu to ensure he can charge any exposed gunners when he activates.

Final question I promise; I worry that a poltergeist is too short range to be very effective against the Ortegas but is a Primordial magic worth taking over the 2 extra SS?

Thanks again guys

Well Candy and Kade also have the big advantage of being Ht 1, they can very easily hide behind terrain and are in general quicker then the twins. Lelu may eat more face then Kade, but Sweatbreads slow can really pay off some times and essentially, a Lelu costs 14ss since you really always want a Lilitu with one . So that is the biggest drawbacks of the twins, you really want to have both of them so its a big point sink.

But in this case, Kade + Candy is the same cost so it is an interesting trade off. Candy brings another source of Self-loathing (which is fantastic) and her healing and poison is not to bad. In a game that is much more about playing to your objectives then killing, Candy can be extremely useful for Run Away-Home. Not to mention she can be a huge speed bump.

Really I think it is a toss up to what you want in your crew. I like the kids for their Pacify/Incite, there objective usefulness and their theme. But I also love the twins for many reasons, so its a hard choice to be honest. Just take both XD

As for the Poltergeist and Primordial Magic, this is a huge point of debate between players and there is no right answer. Just flat out, there is not a right answer to this so don't get to hung up on it. I suggest for this game against the Ortega's though, to go with any of them. Truthfully its up to you and I don't know what your list is exactly or how you plan on playing it. You know when each is most useful and you know that since Perdita can get past Expose Fears you may need all those SS. If it was me, I would probably take the Poltergeist just for the threat of it and send it up along a flank. If they forget about it, cool it's going to have some fun with them. If they don't oh well, its only 2ss.

[0-0-17]

Well Candy and Kade also have the big advantage of being Ht 1, they can very easily hide behind terrain and are in general quicker then the twins. Lelu may eat more face then Kade, but Sweatbreads slow can really pay off some times and essentially, a Lelu costs 14ss since you really always want a Lilitu with one . So that is the biggest drawbacks of the twins, you really want to have both of them so its a big point sink.

But in this case, Kade + Candy is the same cost so it is an interesting trade off. Candy brings another source of Self-loathing (which is fantastic) and her healing and poison is not to bad. In a game that is much more about playing to your objectives then killing, Candy can be extremely useful for Run Away-Home. Not to mention she can be a huge speed bump.

Really I think it is a toss up to what you want in your crew. I like the kids for their Pacify/Incite, there objective usefulness and their theme. But I also love the twins for many reasons, so its a hard choice to be honest. Just take both XD

As for the Poltergeist and Primordial Magic, this is a huge point of debate between players and there is no right answer. Just flat out, there is not a right answer to this so don't get to hung up on it. I suggest for this game against the Ortega's though, to go with any of them. Truthfully its up to you and I don't know what your list is exactly or how you plan on playing it. You know when each is most useful and you know that since Perdita can get past Expose Fears you may need all those SS. If it was me, I would probably take the Poltergeist just for the threat of it and send it up along a flank. If they forget about it, cool it's going to have some fun with them. If they don't oh well, its only 2ss.

Thanks, I'm currently thinking of running

Pandora

- Lelu

- Lilitu

- 3 Sorrows

- Totem

I don't really have a concrete strategy ATM but I was thinking of attaching 2 Sorrows to Pandora and one to Lelu to help cover his flank (either by paralysing targets who line up to shoot him after he's shredded someone or popping Punish Me! on a harder target before Lelu leaps on them) and soak some Wd for him if needs be. On paper, these look to me to be better options on a Pacified opponent, lured to somewhere awkward where the other family members will need to move towards me to see him. I also hope this gets him it a bit closer to the front to take snipes at people's Wd with emotional stress, particularly if Lilitu goes for a long-range Lure.

Just to clarify (I'm terrible at explaining myself on forums) I can definitely see use in Candy but not so much against the Ortegas because most of them don't have any melee weapons (it's a pity they can't shoot themselves in the head...) and I doubt Harmless will buy her much extra survival if she does get seen. In objective grabbing games though I'd consider using whoever I was facing. But in bigger games, taking both pairs seems a dastardly good idea =D

As for Sorrows, is it generally better to activate them before or after the model they're attached to? I can see some distinct advantages either way; Martyr will be available all the time if the linked model goes first but it does confine them to going where their linked master goes unless I want to break the link.

[karn987]

Thanks, I'm currently thinking of running

Pandora

- Lelu

- Lilitu

- 3 Sorrows

- Totem

I don't really have a concrete strategy ATM but I was thinking of attaching 2 Sorrows to Pandora and one to Lelu to help cover his flank (either by paralysing targets who line up to shoot him after he's shredded someone or popping Punish Me! on a harder target before Lelu leaps on them) and soak some Wd for him if needs be. On paper, these look to me to be better options on a Pacified opponent, lured to somewhere awkward where the other family members will need to move towards me to see him. I also hope this gets him it a bit closer to the front to take snipes at people's Wd with emotional stress, particularly if Lilitu goes for a long-range Lure.

Just to clarify (I'm terrible at explaining myself on forums) I can definitely see use in Candy but not so much against the Ortegas because most of them don't have any melee weapons (it's a pity they can't shoot themselves in the head...) and I doubt Harmless will buy her much extra survival if she does get seen. In objective grabbing games though I'd consider using whoever I was facing. But in bigger games, taking both pairs seems a dastardly good idea =D

As for Sorrows, is it generally better to activate them before or after the model they're attached to? I can see some distinct advantages either way; Martyr will be available all the time if the linked model goes first but it does confine them to going where their linked master goes unless I want to break the link.

Well one quick thing, Lelu doesn't have Martyr so a Sorrow attached to him can't take hits for him. While he can easily heal through the Wds Sorrow will cause for being linked to a model without Martyr, there is not any synergistic benefit... but there is a whole lot of other benefit. Lelu should ensure the Sorrow gets up into range and the Sorrows Doldrums and Melancholy will be crippling debuffs to anyone trying to take on Lelu. So that is actually a very good idea.

I think you certainly have a great crew and plan going into this. 2 Sorrows on Pandora is a great idea as long as you can keep her away from Blast generating models like Papa Loco (you probably want to kill him off first and quickly). Once they are out of the way, just battle train your way up the board, take a Walk to bring your 2 Sorrows up to you and hammer away on a target with your spells before battle training away and hopefully out of LoS and your Sorrows follow up at the end of your activation.

As for when to activate Sorrows, it is very situational. If they are already in position to cast their spells, then activate them first and try for Melancholy twice. Getting it off once is all you need to pretty much assure that the follow up model should have an easy time. If the Sorrows are not in position or if the model in question is likely not to die, then Doldrums can be the better choice. Especially if the target is already debuffed by Project Emotions: Pity. Paralyze is very powerful and I've always been of the opinion that Doldrums is always worth the shot of casting it if the model will survive the turn. So really its situational lol. Its really a question what is more useful at the moment, Melancholy or Doldrums and what you are in range of using.

Another dastardly use of Sorrows could be moving them into B2B with an enemy model to Link to them. My tactica goes into more detail on this, but sometimes Siphon Magic can really pay off. If nothing else ,they are most likely going to have to kill the Sorrow before they do much else. If they don't well they are certainly in Emotional Stress's range and will soon be getting Melancholy/Doldrums cast on them each turn they ignore the Sorrow.

BTW I agree with you about Candy and Kade vs the Ortegas Their uses are a bit blunted against that crew.

[0-0-17]

D'oh, I forgot about Leech life, but like you say Lelu can take the hit so I'll keep at it, thanks for the reminder tho'.

I'm definitely going for Papa Loco first, specifically trying to get him to explode while he's near the other family members, either by killing him or getting lucky with a damage flip from self-loathing (the fact he takes an auto 1Wd just from attacking with his melee weapon, in addition to Emotional Trauma/Stress helps).

Thanks for all the advice

[micahwc]

Peredita can not shoot herself in the head, but she can bash herself. With only 8 wounds, why not?