Bozzy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'm probally buying marcus shortly (with the rush of ramos being bought in the area I wanted something different.) .trying to come up with something of a fine tuned tourney list...(most tournies here you bring fifty points make your thirty five point list each round from that ) So hers a rough start of a list too work from. Marcus Coryphee 7 Coryphee 7 Shikome 8 Jackalope 1 Sabertooth 8 8 catche Things consider -this should be an extremely mobile list tho lacking in the numbers...could consider removing some of the bigger costed units to fir in some other beasts..raptors molemen silurids etc... -is one shikome the right number..I've honestly played with very few of theese models so not sure myself... -is this missing some range.aka gunslinger or gunsmith..or does the speed of the army just make gunners to slow -eight soulstones might be a but much but can cause some pain and also help get one of the strategies I can really dominate at -models too consider -miranda never liked her but maybe you can convince me otherwisey -the rattler..not a huge fan on paper either -waldagiest honestly bring a neverborn player this is one of the only models I've never played with -the lawyer I'm iffy cause I know lucious players that don't even like them. So let's hear your thoughts maliworld. Boz out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurry Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 i would take a moleman, keep him close to Marcus with armour 5 for Defend Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Haha their are fewer marcus players than i thought.... And to above post.. I considered it.. but moles to slow to keep up with marcus.. jackalope and coyphee duet can keep up withem and i can make the duet a beast to take some of the damage for him then can make healing flips to get back up in life total.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneInABilliam Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 lol rush of Ramos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 LoL everyone i talk to around here lately..is "interested in ramos as their next army lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneInABilliam Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I started a trend... Kind of hope they change their minds, I like being the only Ramos player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 lol yea im sticking with marcus as of wednesday.. just gotta tweak the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I never really had much luck with the sabertooth i found it lost most of its effectiveness as soon as its down to half wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'm probally buying marcus shortly (with the rush of ramos being bought in the area I wanted something different.) .trying to come up with something of a fine tuned tourney list...(most tournies here you bring fifty points make your thirty five point list each round from that ) So hers a rough start of a list too work from. Marcus Coryphee 7 Coryphee 7 Shikome 8 Jackalope 1 Sabertooth 8 8 catche Things consider -this should be an extremely mobile list tho lacking in the numbers...could consider removing some of the bigger costed units to fir in some other beasts..raptors molemen silurids etc... -is one shikome the right number..I've honestly played with very few of theese models so not sure myself... -is this missing some range.aka gunslinger or gunsmith..or does the speed of the army just make gunners to slow -eight soulstones might be a but much but can cause some pain and also help get one of the strategies I can really dominate at -models too consider -miranda never liked her but maybe you can convince me otherwisey -the rattler..not a huge fan on paper either -waldagiest honestly bring a neverborn player this is one of the only models I've never played with -the lawyer I'm iffy cause I know lucious players that don't even like them. So let's hear your thoughts maliworld. Boz out So, The list you have so far looks pretty good, but I have some things to suggest. First of all, the Cerberus. Why bother? I mean, I have never, ever had any luck with it. Roar is only good in very certain situations, and the cards need to actually get leap off are ridiculous. Meanwhile, we have the Rogue Necromancy in the Resurrectionist faction. It still kicks ass in melee, and it has Smell of Death, which combos with Marcus' Primal Surge. It has a 12 inch gun in the form of Acid Breath. For two more SS than a Cerberus, I don't see anyone using the living version with Marcus. If you bring the Necromancy, Miranda can cast Acid Breath 3 times with Furious Casting. If you want to have ranged capabilities, there you go. One Shikome is the exact right number. At 8 SS, it is an extremely expensive guided missile. I just can't justify 16 SS worth of harpies... The Waldgeist is great because it is a relatively tough model that can keep up with Marcus for the defensive order. It can also cart a forest around the board, which makes it an instant pick against Guild Armies. If the Ortegas can't shoot you from across the board, they become a lot less threatening. As a Scout, Marcus can fly through the forests with no problem. Think about proxying a Freikorps trapper. The +flip against beasts with his gun is a handy little tool to put in Marcus' back pocket. You are extremely low on models, although That is kind of the traditional Marcus issue. I'd either get rid of the Cerberus or the Coryphees (awesome, but no synergy with Marcus), and get something cheaper in there. I haven't tried out the Raptors yet, but they SHOULD fit the bill rather nicely. Heck, desperate mercenaries are great for early activations, if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Through thinking I might remove the cerb for two mole men and a malifaux raptor..raptor turn one his coryphee making it a beast for the game..follow marcus around bouncing attacks to it as it heals..and raptor and mole men...our more raptors giving me some activations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) I just started up Marcus recently myself, and I've been using the Shikome and Cerberus to great effect together. As others have said, on its own the Cerberus isn't all that great. He's a decent heavy hitter, but he's also very squishy when you consider that he's probably losing his extra attacks after 1-2 hits. If you can get him in quickly, he does alright, but Marcus has more durable, reliable options. However, when the Cerberus is used as a Hunting Partner with the Shikome, he's really scary. The Cerberus' many inherent attacks make great use of the positive flips gained from Single Minded and the extra action from Fast lets you toss yet another attack onto the pile. Plus, if you can flip/cheat the 7+ of Masks you need to Leap, you can land near his prey with potentially 5 attacks, with positive flips on everything. Granted, none of that helps him get into combat, but it makes him significantly more dangerous when he gets there. Hell, if you can Leap then Charge, you cover 18" of table, and still arrive at the target with 4 attacks. It bumps the Cerberus up from being a moderately dangerous model, to something that can shred Masters and Minions that are much more expensive than he is. I've had a lot of fun using them together. Edit: To get to the point: I'd leave the Cerberus in, and try combo'ing it up with the Shikome to shred any lynch pin/big models your opponent brings. Failing that, sick it on their master. Edited January 25, 2011 by Nephalumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I seem to be infatuated with the coryphee lately...so that's a goid chunk of points with shikome..I've git eight points left after adding jackalope..was thinking raptor and mole men but also considering other models I could take or soulstones ill need.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Well, for what its worth, I've done pretty well with Marcus without him having a full cache. He operates close to the front, but I've found that his army tends to precede him, so he doesn't take a lot of heat right away. When he goes into "mop up" mode, then you do start burning SS (and you may need to burn some to ward off the odd attack,) but I didn't find that he needed as many as, say, Lilith. I'd almost consider the Shikome+Cerberus a "module", if you will. If you take out one, I'd almost consider taking out the other. In your list, if you take out the Cerberus, the only significant beast you have to Partner with is Marcus. While that can be really effective, its also kind of dangerous, because it limits Marcus' flexibility (one of his biggest strengths.) However, there are two other factors: 1) I really, really value the Shikome's "Hunting Partner" ability. She brings a lot of great things to Marcus' crew, but I think thats the main reason to include her. YMMV, of course. 2) You seem to have a "durable" kind of list coming together, what with the Coryphees and the Shikome. That would likely work very well. I'm just a stickler for "theme", so I only take beasts with Marcus. If you drop the Cerberus, it gives you a good chunk of SS to work with, and if your comfortable with what the Coryphees can accomplish (I've heard many horror stories, though I've never seen them in action,) you can very likely afford to drop the Cerberus and give yourself some SS wiggle room for the cheaper beasties. One thing that just occurred to me: I've always thought about using the Shikome (depending on the Strategy and enemy crew,) as a kind of "Hunting Partner" generator during the first half of the game. Have it drop Hunting Partner on weenie models, then send them out on a glorious suicide run. I was originally considering doing it with Guild's Guard Dogs, since they're pretty much missiles to begin with. However, it just occurred to me that a half decent target may also be the Malifaux Raptors. The positive flip to attack helps off-set their cruddy Cb, and gives you a bonus flip to try for either trigger. Plus, if they charge, the Fast action can be used for a second attack which is either more plink damage, or another chance for the combat trigger. Or, you could double walk them 16", and assuming you're within melee of your prey at that point, you could attack them then as well. It may not be the most powerful option, but it'd be damn irritating, and it'd be a good way for the Shikome to buff up Marcus' crew a bit if its too dangerous/not beneficial for her to be cruising for blood in the first few turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 The raptor can turn the coryphee into a beast turn one and he remains a beast intil end of game unless I discard two card =)... Then marcus can bounce damage to a coryphee whom can heal themselves once a turn and is bullet proof two..any other model I take could also become a beast with malifaux raptor..realisticly with my list I have six points left over right now..considering two moles or gunsmith..maybe miranda but meh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Durp! That's right. You even spelled out that interaction earlier in the thread. Well, in that case, I'd say go with something like the Gunsmith. Molemen, at least in my experience, tend to be objective holders (late game, at least,) and more importantly bullet/charge shields for Marcus. Since you kind of already have that angle covered, mightas well go for something with more bite (no pun intended. :dead1:) Edited January 25, 2011 by Nephalumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbeauchene Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Couple questions for you, are you certain the "beast" Coryphee can use it's Bulletproof 2 against redirected damage? I am not sure you can because Marcus redirects the damage, and not the actual model shooting. Is it still considered range damage on the Coryphee? The Shikome and Cerebrus is a very, very potent combination-I would use it in the place of the Coryphee. How are you going to hold the Soulstones for the Cory's? You have good synergy for the Cory's with Collette because of her SS generation, but Marcus is not the same. Also their damage flips are only 2/3/4, I have used them very effectively as a scalpel-especially abusing dance apart and dance together-but they are not a hammer, and Marcus needs a hammer. The Shikome/Cerebrus combo is a huge hammer that clubs folks into the ground. The moleman trick is awesome to avoid early shooting. Tunnel him on turn one, and then just keep walking him with Marcus (I know Marcus is very fast, but Armor 5 vs. shooting is worth slowing down for-especially with a beatstick running around. The Coryphee are incredibly fast, and should be used for Strategy/Scheme completion and should not be tied to Marcus defense. I have effectively run at 35SS: Marcus Cerebrus 8 Shikome 8 Moleman 3 Waldgeist 6 Myranda 7 (she can become a Shikome!) Jackalope 1 6 SS pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Couple questions for you, are you certain the "beast" Coryphee can use it's Bulletproof 2 against redirected damage? I am not sure you can because Marcus redirects the damage, and not the actual model shooting. Is it still considered range damage on the Coryphee? V2 wording: "Df(:tomes) Defend Me: After this model is hit by a ranged attack or is Charged, nominate a friendly Beast within 3”. Switch places with the nominated Beast. The Beast is now the target of the attack." From this I don't see why Bulletproof wouldn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Il be buying olmost every beast option out thier along with other non beast options..so ill have plenty if time to play around..any non beast models I, should consider...especially if I can phenom into a beast..was looking at gunsmith and mechanical rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I think the Mechanical Rider as a beast would be pretty awesome. Combo that with the Shikome, and you'd have one nasty, nasty hunter cruising around. I'm not sure the Gunsmith gains much from becoming a beast. Thinking it through, you could do Companion shenanigans with Marcus and Myranda, and you could heal him (though you'd want him to stay less than fully healed for "The Hard Way".) And he doesn't make an appreciably better bullet sponge than a Moleman or a Coryphee, so thats not a big benefit either. Though with his ability to take a Wd and gain a Wp bonus (am I remembering that right?) and Marcus' Howl, he'd be Wp zillion, which would be nice vs. crews that exploit Wp. Still, its not like he loses much by gaining the beast trait, and Marcus could probably use the shooting to help cover his advance. I've messed around with the Convict Gunslinger with Marcus a few times, and now that the Gunsmith is an option, I think he'll be a much better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbeauchene Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Looks like it would Woodchow, that's why it was a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Looks like it would Woodchow, that's why it was a question. Ah well, can't give you a certain answer, sorry, I just think it'd be odd to rule it that they cannot make use of Bulletproof =x Reason I quoted the V2 was that I was under the impression that you were thinking of the V1 card. Sorry for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ropetus Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Defend Me! does not change any attributes of the attack. It will still count as melee/ranged/magical/whatever and all abilities governing that type of attack still apply. You can reduce the damage with Armor, Bulletproof, Magic Resistance etc. Same applies to all abilities of the attacker, so redirecting the attack of a charging McMourning to a Mole might be a bad idea at times. -Ropetus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbeauchene Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks Ropetus, I wasn't sure, which is why I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yea not a huge fan of gunsmith our gunslinger..think they would slow down the speed of a marcus crew...side note anyone find a decent proxy of mechanical rider.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I tried out quite a few raptors last night in a brawl game against outcasts and to be honest I wasnt massivly impressed with them even for the 2SS that they cost. They were definatly more of a road block than anything else as they are so damn quick. However I did quite like running the Shikome without using Hunting Partner as I have a fear that it will be too restrictive having both models going after the same target however it can be very usefull. Have you thought about taking a pair of hoarcats? while you have the pair alive devour can be devastating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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