Anyone have a Tactica for Sorrows?

[Wakshaani]

Because I just can't figure them out. Average defense, wounds low enough that a single hit from a Guild member kills them, slow, insignificant so they can't complete objectives ... I just can't figure out how to use them to save my life.

A lil' help?

[karn987]

Well I have my Pandora Tactica (you can find the link in my signature) which details the use of Sorrows with Pandora (their primary user).

Otherwise I can summarize. They have many amazing aspects to them, but you have to look at them from an angle.

With the fix to Link (found under the Extra Errata Post in the rules forum) Sorrows work like they did originally. You link to a model and let that model cart you around the board. Now they will hurt that model unless it has Martyr (which Candy, Kade, and Pandora all do... hint hint) but the damage isn't much for the benefit.

They are very short range so Link is basically required to get them into play and to be effective. You generally link to a much quicker model like the kids etc and have them drag you into range thus freeing up all your AP. An interesting choice for Link targets are things that regenerate like Teddy who wants to be in melee any way.

But as for abilities, they have Emotional Stress which is their main use with Pandora because each Sorrow in range is another Wd loss per failed Wp duel. An old Tactic was the Pandora Sorrow hive which was Pandora with 3 Sorrows linked to her. If she gets you in range of all 4, you take 4 instances of 1 Wd per failed Wp duel! Nasty.

Doldrums is a fantastic spell because Paralyze is almost as powerful as Falling back. It shuts down a model for a whole turn and drastically limits what they can do if anything.

Their other spell which grants the Negative Flips (cant remember the name) is also absolutely amazing. Sure their CA is low, but if they get in range via Link movement, you can do it twice a turn. Its always worth the attempt and if it goes off, that model is now pretty much boned for hte turn since it won't be able to cheat most duels and it's chance of say resisting Pandora's spells or dodging Teddy's attacks go out the window.

Lastly they can use the spells of a target they are linked to as an all action (and rumors say a (2) action in the upcoming v2 stuff). While this may seem strange to you, there are some nice spells out there you may want to use. Say Pandora's Project Emotions, Candy's Hurt yourself spell, and even enemy spells! Nothing says "F$%^ You" like tanking Raspys blast spell and nailing her own units with it.

In short, they are easy to kill and insig to trade off for all their amazing offensive power and strategic use. With Martyr'ed figures they provide that target with safety to shunt off a whole attack onto the Sorrow. Their low Df makes them prime targets for attacks (especially blasts so if your going against blasts you want to spread out) but that is an attack not aimed at Pandora, or Candy or someone much more valuable. In short, everything can be hit and killed in Malifaux without much trouble, Sorrows are just easier to nail then most. But they are also a box of evil evil abilities and if ignored or play strategically, can turn a combat or even a whole game for you with ease.

They take some thought basically and there are a huge number of tricks with them and things you can do with Link which will amaze you. Here is just a taste (a lot more is in my tactica and under various other posts): Link some to Pandora first turn of the game then pass. As long as they end in b2b with her they stay linked. So at some point in the game you have Pandora Pacify/Incite + Fading Memory down the board. Now sadly Link doesn't work with a push, so Pandora then uses a (1) to walk. Suddenly all your linked Sorrows push up into B2b with you and you just increased your damage X number of times where X = # Sorrows!

Edited December 30, 2010 by karn987

[karn987]

PS: There is a lot more to them but i don't have the time right now to do a huge write up =). If my Pandora tactica doesn't help you enough, let me know and Ill do a huge write up and hopefully get everything down for you.

[Natty]

I think Karn and I have always disagreed about Sorrows. I for one don't like them. When I played Pandora, I almost always saved every single high card for defense on Pandora, and definitely saved every single crow for Pandora's trigger. Pandora is a force. An unbelievably destructive force, but if something makes it past her defenses she is a wet noodle waiting to die. I have gone numerous games where I played maybe 1 or 2 cards per turn and just stared at high cards sitting in my hand because I knew I needed to save them for Pandora. I'd honestly rather keep a high card in my hand for Pandora next turn than use it now on a sorrow and maybe get a spell to hit.

Sorrows have low cast and for one of their abilities, need a crow to work. To get their abilities off takes either a lucky flip or a card from your hand, and even then it is easily resistable since most things have a higher wp than they have cast.

Also, they are unbelievably breakable, easy to hit, and offer a target that allows you to put blasts onto Pandora. So if there is anything on the opposing team with blast templates, they are actually a bad model to have attached to Pandora.

I, for one, like to keep my Pandora right up in my opponents face and dare them to attack her. She is one of the hardest things in the game to kill and your opponent not only will waste resources doing it, they takes wounds when they fail and give her a free push. If you have sorrows attached to Pandora, you just plain can't use this tactic. Your opponent will attack the sorrows every time.

So, keeping all that in mind, sorrows have one AMAZING use in my opinion, and that is exactly like Karn said, where you link several of them to Pandora, then push her up to the enemy, take a walk action, and have them all zip up to you. Then you go crazy with Project Emotions and start doing insane amounts of wounds. The problem with all that is that it is a one trick pony. If it doesn't work the first time, all those sorrows are extremely dead. Not much is going to keep a sorrow alive for a full turn when it is right in the middle of the enemy.

A good player will see 3 sorrows linked to Pandora and keep their guys a little more spread out, so if you walk with Pandora to bundle them up, then you are only hitting one, maybe 2 guys with all those sorrows, and your opponent can easily take them down. At the same time though, you may be able to pick off the guys in the fringes if they spread out too much.

On to part 2 why I hate sorrows - They are insignificant!!! You can't complete your schemes with them. A huge part of many games requires you to have significant minions. The majority of your games will be harder to win if half of your dudes are insignificant.

So to sum up, (in my opinion), sorrows are just about only good for the sorrow bomb, where you walk Pandora into the middle of a bunch of guys and go crazy. It's not a tactic that I like, but hey, it can definitely work REALLY REALLY well sometimes. I, personally, like to just copy emotional trauma on the doppelganger and settle for dealing 1 or 2 wounds on failed wp tests. That's enough for me =)

[karn987]

Ahh the joy of free-will and ability to have differing opinions =)

While Im not going in at each detail, I will say most of the flaws Natty pointed out can be dealt with or are found on most models. For example, spreading out to counter the Sorrow Hive is all well and good, but it still leaves one or two very very dead models and careful application of Debuffs and positioning your crew can eliminate any relation against the Sorrows or Pandora. =D So you see? Things are much more complex then they seem and boil down to situation. I think with a little thought, you can over-come any threat and Pandora and the Sorrows are certainly some of the best equipped models in the game to do this.

Natty and I notoriously butt heads as to opinions on tactics and the use of many models in the game so take it all with a grain of salt. I believe Natty favors a more Pandora central style of play where it all revolves around abusing her and shoving her down the opponents throat. Where as I prefer a crew encompassing style of play where I aim to get the most out of every model and use tricks and spread a web. Both have their benefits and draw backs and really its all about your own style of play. But just remember, there are many many situational uses for most any model in the game.

Edited December 30, 2010 by karn987

[Zwergenkrieger]

Nice posts here!

But I wonder, is there a use for Sorrows outside a Pandora crew?

ZK

[Bozzy]

Maybe each one casting an obey from zoraida..but shed get hurt from the link..shrug

[Natty]

I believe Natty favors a more Pandora central style of play where it all revolves around abusing her and shoving her down the opponents throat. Where as I prefer a crew encompassing style of play where I aim to get the most out of every model and use tricks and spread a web.

Truth.

Not that I don't use my crew to their fullest, but most of the time they are just there are a distraction and for positioning purposes to let Pandora be really really mean. Like I've said before, most games I wouldn't even waste my high cards on my crew, I'd just let their abilities wiff or watch them die if I flipped low and save my cards for Pandora. When you feed Pandora every single high card in your hand and start with max soulstones, she puts out quite a hurting.

That 11 that you just used to do 2 more damage with a Silurid could save Pandora's life. That crow that you just used to lure someone with Kade could have been used to make an enemy fall back. Pandora is a gross annoying machine of ultimate destruction.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Natty