Who are the Three Worst Masters?

[Doctor Amos]

Just out of curiostity, who doesn't quite cut the proverbial mustard? Whose game is played out? Who does something unique and novel but has no ability to fufil thier destiny?

[Nirvanawn]

To me it is these three just never work out well.

1. Marcus

2. Lady Justice

3. Ramos (Do not really have a good third)

This was the question I was going to ask next. Also, thought about asking best faction.

[The Green Git]

I don't know from experience but if the amount of people playing them say anything you could draw from inference:

1. Marcus. Rarely do I see him fielded.

2. McMourning also does not show up in these parts.

3. Sonia Criid.

What I see a lot of:

1. Seamus.

2. Karai.

3. The Dreamer.

I have seen a Ramos crew used to good effect and do middle pack with Lady Justice personally.

[Wodschow]

Molly, Kaeris, Collodi... But we should probably wait for them to get the rest of their crews in Book3.

Not counting Henchmen.. Hmm..

I haven't seen Marcus played with Book2 stuff, but I think he's still in the lower end of the spectrum.

Ramos can also be difficult to do too well with I think. Maybe Som'er on the last place? Not really sure.

I don't really think there's any apparent losers in this game, some Masters just require slightly more effort for slightly less gain.

The individual players' skill level starts to matter way more than the inherent strength of the Masters when we're amongst the weaker Masters, making it difficult to rank them.

[huntroll]

I don't know from experience but if the amount of people playing them say anything you could draw from inference:

1. Marcus. Rarely do I see him fielded.

2. McMourning also does not show up in these parts.

3. Sonia Criid.

What I see a lot of:

1. Seamus.

2. Karai.

3. The Dreamer.

I have seen a Ramos crew used to good effect and do middle pack with Lady Justice personally.

Whoa, McM and Sonnia are clearly not bad masters at all. McM is an awesome summoner and has great melee and ranged spells (Oh, so your Joss has Armor 5 which cannot be ignored? Wracked with Pain solves this problem), and has a HUGE cache of SS, his only problem is his terrible starting box and bad Wp, but he shouldn't be on the frontline when he can summon nasty things and Belles can Lure his prey closer.

Sonnia has great utility, especially vs. armies which rely on spells (so most Resser lists with Belles, Pandora, Arcanists as a whole, etc). I underestimated her once, then she managed to kill my whole army except the master in one turn, and on the next she screwed my "last chance" assassination attempt with McM thanks to her counterspell. Sure, she lacks the crazy defensive stats of Perdita, but at least you don't have to get close with her like Lady J.

I agree with Nirvanawn, Ramos, Lady J and Marcus are a bit lacking, but I've been beaten badly by Ramos and have seen Marcus winning tournaments focusin on the objectives instead of causing carnage.

Regarding Lady J... Why take her (other than her awesome model), if you can take Perdita with almost as much damage, but more survivablity, or Sonnia, who is in fact better vs. Ressers... :/

[Koali]

Marcus, Somer are the first choices... after that there is a real big gap...

The Third one is realy difficult to choose...

[karn987]

Woah! This is a loaded question Amos.

All the masters are more then effective in my opinion and yes some stand out from the others, but none stand out to be as weak or lacking.

[M_Ruckuss]

I think McMourning packs a real punch when used properly, but am not a fan of his starting box as i play very differently from it, have seen Lady J used very well and really like Criid. Yes there are some strong,all round masters, perhaps some are just less forgiving than others (I cant see wyrd realeasing a master who is designed to get smashed; no one would play him or her!)

All masters have potential. Take Marcus; cant he hire beats from any faction for instance???

[Nirvanawn]

Sure there is a lot of merit to any master, but in the end no matter how well a game is design (I am fond of this design) there will be weaker parts and stronger parts. I look at it as a competitive side. Who is best or worse over a great deal of strategies and schemes. If they are one sided in what strategies or schemes they can use then well they are weaker. I understand that the game is more balanced on faction. Factions as a whole do well across thee board when it comes play as a whole. This is also why tournament let you often pick a faction throughout and not one master. Also, it does come down to play style. If they fit you, then all the better.

[nilus]

This is easy. The worst master is the one facing me because I am awesome

J/K

I think Marcus was bad pre-book 2. He has more toys now which make him better. Still a steep learning curve though

Sommer Teeth. Mostly because of his learning curve and his general fragile crews.

Can't really think of a third.

[Nirvanawn]

I am surprised to hear Somer on the list. Gremlins are so strong in my opinion. I guess Somer"s pigs are the real issue, but still you just need to know the tricks.

[Nirvanawn]

I am surprised to hear Somer on the list. Gremlins are so strong in my opinion. I guess Somer"s pigs are the real issue, but still you just need to know the tricks.

[tadaka]

I find it entertaining that lady j has been listed on both lists. I happen to think shes dead center for lists. Read as well balanced. Also for the person who noted she was bad because the other guild are good. Note perdita tops the best master list. As for cridd they are like 2 sides of the same coin and both balanced well.

[Hookers]

Love McMourning. Low Df and Wp, but man can he slice and dice.

To me there isn't a weakest master. I like Marcus a lot too. He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve and got a good bit better in what he can take and interact with in the new book.

You gotta keep in mind which master is powerful depends largely on your and your opponent's strategies.

[nilus]

A lot of Somer weakness comes from a pre-book2 mentality that some of use are guilty of. Gremlins got a huge boost in book 2(Heck they got there own chapter of the book), which gave them a lot of new toys that some of us are still processing.

That being said they still also have that little problem of doing damage to themselves a lot that when not handled correctly can really screw a player up.

[huntroll]

Also for the person who noted she was bad because the other guild are good. Note perdita tops the best master list. As for cridd they are like 2 sides of the same coin and both balanced well.

I didn't say she is bad, I said she is one-sided compared to the other Book1 masters. Perdita has range (and melee) damage, which is not as brutal, as LadyJ's, but still pretty efficient, speed (great for objectives), great defensive stats and Obey, while Sonnia has insane AoE damage, anti-spellcasting and denial abilities, which hurts the majority of the crews in the game.

While LadyJ has brutal damage. If she gets to melee. And she is not Fast, has no defensive abilities and only average defensive stats... Her spells are also lackluster. Sword Style is good, if she gets in melee (see the point?). Restore Natural Order could be great vs. Canine-heavy Resser forces, but a decent Resser player will not bring more than a couple of them if he knows he will face LadyJ. Blind Justice is only effective vs. a few lists (most notably Pandora). Though I couldn't say anything bad about Combat Provess, its a soild spell.

So, she is a solid beatstick, but try to compare her to Lilith, another beatstick, and you will be really disappointed... (I know, different faction, but still, Lilith has much more utility for a bit less damage output...)

[Justin]

A lot of Somer weakness comes from a pre-book2 mentality that some of use are guilty of. Gremlins got a huge boost in book 2(Heck they got there own chapter of the book), which gave them a lot of new toys that some of us are still processing.

That being said they still also have that little problem of doing damage to themselves a lot that when not handled correctly can really screw a player up.

This.

I am issuing an open challenge to all you Sommer haters with my post book 2 gremlins.

PREPARE FOR THE PORKCHOP

[Justin]

Also, the thing about Lady Justice...she's not bad. But she's not the best at what she does, which makes her look bad.

[nilus]

While LadyJ has brutal damage. If she gets to melee. And she is not Fast, has no defensive abilities

She has riposte, which is pretty damn nifty

[huntroll]

She has riposte, which is pretty damn nifty

Yes, in melee and with a Df of 5. But it doesn't stop anyone from blasting her with spells or shooting her.

[nilus]

Yes, in melee and with a Df of 5. But it doesn't stop anyone from blasting her with spells or shooting her.

Very true, was just clearing up that fact that she does have one

She also has 12 wounds, that makes her pretty resilient as well.

[Wodschow]

And.. She's a Master in the shootiest faction.. If the enemy stays away from her.. It's their own fault.

[MrNybbles]

2. McMourning also does not show up in these parts.

I kid you not, last time I played I killed two of MrMourning's Canine Remains and inflicted 2 Wd on about 4 other models with Coryphee Duet's Orchestral Crescendo on turn 2, then he activated McMourning and killed the Duet in one activation. It was a 25ss game so I had started with Colette, Cassandra, two Coryphees, and a Mechanical Dove. That was a huge loss to me.

[tadaka]

So, she is a solid beatstick, but try to compare her to Lilith, another beatstick, and you will be really disappointed... (I know, different faction, but still, Lilith has much more utility for a bit less damage output...)

I understand this but that's kind of my whole point. I don't think lady J is underpowered but some of the other masters are a little 2 good atm. If you look at lady j minus the few masters who are at the top of the heap Levi, perdita, lilth she is a very solid master. Levi has been nurfed some and I hope a couple of the others will be 2.

[Carcosannoble]

It pleases me that Nicodem is not on this list. Yes... *evil cackle* Of course, he's not on the best of list either.