Question on Maturing Terror Tots Turn 1.

[Thunder_God]

I think it's more likely Avatar forms will be like Hamelin and Hamelin, or in Warmachine terms, normal and epic forms, and you'd make the decision when hiring the respective version as your crew's leader.

[i_was_like_you]

I can't wait for the Rules Manual so we don't have to flip back and forth between two books and the errata.

Why would they errata out that a model can attack itself? In the harsh world of Malifaux, one has to be willing to make sacrifices. Sometimes those sacrifices involve spilling your own blood for the good of the crew. Next they'll just errata that we can't attack our friendly models at all, and we'll have to go back to growing our Tots the old fashioned way, by spilling our enemies' blood in combat.

[i_was_like_you]

I think it's more likely Avatar forms will be like Hamelin and Hamelin, or in Warmachine terms, normal and epic forms, and you'd make the decision when hiring the respective version as your crew's leader.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think you're entirely right either. We'll just have to wait and see.

[i_was_like_you]

Actually, they do address it in the errata:

Declare Target, then Check Range (p.54)

Replace second sentence with

“Any model other than the attacker within the attacker’s LoS can be targeted.”

So this deals with both the removal of non-master, and anything but itself.

Maybe they'll just errata / change it on the card of Black Blood Shaman that Inject Blood is just a range 2 spell without being a melee strike spell. There's no reason, flavorwise, or original, non-cuddled ruleswise, that it shouldn't be able to heal itself or another friendly black-blooded Neverborn.

I guess we'll see this month with the Rules Manual or in April with the model for Black Blood Shaman.

[Tograth]

heres a how to:

Warband = 35 points

Lilith +4

primordial magic -2

Black Blood Shaman -6

Nekima -13

3 x Terror Tots -9

2 x Desperate Mercenaries -4

Total 34 points. Leaving Lilith with 5 SS.

deploy with the shaman and 1 tot in base contact with the 2 desperate mercenaries. Nekima and Lillith up front, with Lillith within Melee range of one of the DMs.

Turn 1

1) activate desperate merc. pass

2) activate desperate merc 2. pass

3) Activate Nekima.

a) Cast 0 Nephilim Heart for CA + Mask

Cast 0 Blood Offering. Take 4 wounds and receive 1 Blood counter.

4) Activate Lilith

a) Kill a Merc Using 1st action

Nekima gains 1 Blood Counter from Blood Sense

c) Use the Mercs ability A Last Noble Deed to heal Nekima

d) Use Lilliths 0 to use Drain Blood and get 1 Blood Counter. Draw a card.

e) use the last action do blood from stone. discard 2 SS, gain a blood counter.

you now have 2 blood counters on Nekima and 2 blood counters on Lillith.

5) activate a terror tot

a) cast Grow. discard 1 blood counter from Nekima. replace with young nephilim

use your melee expert attack to kill merc 2.

c) Use the Mercs ability A Last Noble Deed to heal Nekima

c) Nekima gains 1 blood counter from Blood Sense

d) use (0) drain blood to gain 1 blood counter.

e) cast Mature, discarding Lilliths 2 blood counters. Replace young with Mature.

you now have a mature nephilim, 2 blood counters on Nekima, and 1 on the mature nephilim

6) activate second terror tot

a) cast Grow. discard 1 blood counter from Mature Nephilim. replace with young nephilim

cast Mature. Discard 2 blood counters from Nekima. replace with second mature.

7) Activate BB Shaman

a) Cast 0 Blood Offering. Take 4 wounds and receive 1 Blood Counter.

Using corpse Counter cast 1 action Inject Blood on Nekima and heal for 2 and gain Blood Counter from Trigger.

c) Using corpse Counter cast 1 action Inject Blood on Nekima and heal for 2 and gain Blood Counter from Trigger.

8) activate third terror tot

a) cast Grow. discard 1 blood counter from BB shaman. replace with young nephilim

cast Mature. Discard 2 blood counters from BB shaman. replace with second mature.

9) move your primordial magic up. Cast Transposition to swap it with one of either Lillith, Nekima or your 3 Matures.

Doing this in this order nets you a total of 9 blood counters over the course of the first turn. It means you go from having 9 models worth 34 SS (including Lillith) to 7 models worth 51 SS.

casting wise, it requires 6 5+ cards to do the growing/maturing, plus whatever you need for Inject blood.

With primordial magic and Lillith, you will draw 8 cards and discard the worst (i.e. anything less than a 5). when you kill the first DM, you get another card.

the big downsides to doing this is that your crew is static for a turn , and it is bunched up. something that can move fast can really ruin your day by getting in your face. then again, as long as lillith and Nekima are up front and the other guys hanging out behind, who cares? anything that gets that close is gonna get an ass whooping

The other big thing to watch out for is a Tina List (which can target you from turn 1 with Ice gamin providing a mirror and Silent ones extending range).

[Wodschow]

Actually, they do address it in the errata:

Declare Target, then Check Range (p.54)

Replace second sentence with

“Any model other than the attacker within the attacker’s LoS can be targeted.”

So this deals with both the removal of non-master, and anything but itself.

I was talking about spells being considered attacks and such, what you're quoting is only the rules for Strikes. There is no logic reason that it should apply to melee ranged spells though, but it's been ruled to work that way.

Still I believe models shouldn't be able to attack themselves under any circumstances.

You say, No card is so bad that it's better not to have it. I say, I don't need any low cards in my hand that aren't of a suit I need for triggers, not when discarding one card and using 2 AP can net me much better cards, unless I'm battling a crew with heavy discard abilities.

... Those two AP could have made two normal Strikes that could still let you get yet better cards. I just fail to see why discarding a card for no reason can ever be beneficial. But sure.. Your style..

heres yet another how to: (make a boring gimmick list)

Bold added by me. Sorry.

[Thunder_God]

Tograth, Mature Nephilim are Rare 2. Can't have 3.

[Tograth]

Ah. I knew there was somewhere where I was going wrong...