NOT getting shot to hell: How do I do it?

[popg0estheworld]

Alright- I just finished a game vs. the Victorias where my basic Seamus (him and his belles) list got literally shot to hell by a convict gunslinger and Hans. I used terrain to the best of my advantage (I had hard cover almost the entire time), and yet I got shot to living hell. Lost the game without making any real contact. Granted, part of the problem was that I didn't know Hans could make undead explode by just looking at them, but my low Def stats had me hamstrung.

What else can I do to keep my Ressers from getting blown to pieces? I know- run Nico- but what else?

[Werecat]

I don't understand how two models could take out your entire crew while in hard cover the whole time. With lure, the most they should get is 1-2 rounds of shooting. In my opinion, you're eith exaggerating, or you spent the whole game running in circles.

[Sandwich]

If you have a decent hand, cast (1)Distract. Instant slow, your CA versus their WP.

If you don't have a good hand, lure the Gunslinger into somewhere stupid and far away.

Use Madame Sybelle's Shriek. Its ranged, deals damage, and forces them into a WP duel.

Use Seamus' (1)The Face of Death.

If they're taking a ranged heavy crew, section Hans off away from the rest of the pack and kill him quickly via mass companion with Sybelle and her Belles. Once he's within 1"-2" of madame Sybelle, if you have any Belles left over, hit him with an Undress or distract, or both. And then have Madame Sybelle flurry her Riding Crop and hit him with Rough Trade, or hit him with yor fan and stack Fester.

Rough trade forces him to beat a WP duel to act again, making life a wee tad easier.

Fester reduces the target's Wk/cg distance by -1/-1, cumulative, and it lasts for the rest of the game. If you're unable to take him out that turn but manage to reduce his wk to 3 inches or less, next turn hit him with Seamus' (1) Undead Psychosis, this will force him to pass with Hans for the entire turn, allowing you to finish the dirty work.

The Convict is relatively easy to ice, using the same strategy. Against the Convict, feel free to use Seamus' .50 Flintlock against him and the hit a Mistaken Identity and do it again with his totem.

Feel free to read my tactica on Seamus, scroll down to the general tactics for all sorts of cute things to do.

Or, just ignore them and get your strategy / schemes done as fast as humanly possible.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Sandwich

[nilus]

Play with a lot of terrain . But it sounds like you did that.

Use large models to draw fire. Flesh Constructs sometimes are just worth there points as giant bullet screens.

Also try using lure to move those shooty models into bad positions. People have a habit of putting Hans up high to take advantage of his long range but it also makes him very easily lured to his death.

[popg0estheworld]

I don't understand how two models could take out your entire crew while in hard cover the whole time. With lure, the most they should get is 1-2 rounds of shooting. In my opinion, you're eith exaggerating, or you spent the whole game running in circles.

My problem was this- turn two, we drew the "Rubble" event, halving all of my movement. Seamus actually got killed by the VIctorias, but because he was pinned behind hard cover and couldnt escape effectively.

[popg0estheworld]

If you have a decent hand, cast (1)Distract. Instant slow, your CA versus their WP.

If you don't have a good hand, lure the Gunslinger into somewhere stupid and far away.

Use Madame Sybelle's Shriek. Its ranged, deals damage, and forces them into a WP duel.

Use Seamus' (1)The Face of Death.

If they're taking a ranged heavy crew, section Hans off away from the rest of the pack and kill him quickly via mass companion with Sybelle and her Belles. Once he's within 2" of madame Sybelle, if you have any Belles left over, hit him with an Undress or distract, or both. And then have Madame Sybelle flurry her Riding Crop and hit him with Rough Trade, or hit him with yor fan and stack Fester.

Rough trade forces him to beat a WP duel to act again, making life a wee tad easier.

Fester reduces he Wk/cg by -1/-1, cumulative, and lasting the rest of the game. If you're unable to take him out that turn but manage to reduce his wk to 3 inches or less, next turn hit him with Seamus' (1) Undead Psychosis, this will force him to pass with Hans for the entire turn, allowing you to finish the dirty work.

The Convict is relatively easy to ice, using the same strategy. Against the Convict, feel free to use Seamus' .50 Flintlock against him and the hit a Mistaken Identity and do it again with his totem.

Feel free to read my tactica on Seamus, scroll down to the general tactics for all sorts of cute things to do.

Or, just ignore them and get your strategy / schemes done as fast as humanly possible.

Thanks. This was helpful. So was your Seamus tactica.

I think my biggest problem was flipping the "Rubble" event so early in the game (end of turn one) which occurred after my opponent had his shooty models in place and I was stuck behind some hard terrain with no way to get out. I tried to shoot my shambling belles forward to take out Hans, but it just wasn't fast enough. With what you guys told me (and a little more luck with events in the future) I should be in good shape (esp when I add Bette to the mix).

[nilus]

I noticed you said you flipped Rubble in turn 2. You should only be flipping for special terrain/event as you setup the game.

That being said, rubble is rough for Res(Say that three times fast ).

[kbdrand]

Actually there is a section in the first rule book that talks about drawing special events at the end of each turn. Most people just don't use it.

But that effect only lasts 1 turn if you do it that way.

[Sandwich]

Oh, one more thing, since you had Rubble.

When you're luring a target, remember that you are PUSHing it towards your Belle for its walk, this means that the target ignores any terrain penalties and will move up to its full walk.

Use Lure on Seamus when he is in that sort of situation, as you can simply opt to fail the duel and force him to walk 4" in whatever direction your Belle is in.

In a heavy terrain type of scenario you should have the upper hand.

Your girls' shambling in a rubble type terrain is just ridiculously fun.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Sandwich

[Wodschow]

I believe that is incorrect Sandwich.

A push is still a move effect. The only thing that makes pushes different is that they don't generate disengagement strikes (and that they're called pushes, should any specific talent only affect pushes for some reason).

[Sandwich]

I'm fairly certain that it is.

I don't have the core rules with me at the moment, so I've got no quote for you.

[Hatchethead]

I'm fairly certain that it is.

I don't have the core rules with me at the moment, so I've got no quote for you.

I gotta go with Wodschow on this one. A push is a move effect that follows basic movement guidelines. The rule on page 47 has been replaced by errata. Prepare for an errata quote-fest!

Pushes

When a game effect Pushes a model, it is moved the distance indicated by the effect causing the Push. Pushes are move effects, but do not generate disengaging Strikes.

Move effects are defined as:

Movement Effects

All movement is measured from the edge of a model’s base

to the same edge of the model’s base after it moves. A

model’s base is not allowed to pass over another model’s

base as it moves nor is a model allowed to end its move on

top of another model’s base. If a model’s base does not fit

through a gap between bases or terrain, the model must find an

alternate path or stop its movement at the point where it can no

longer pass. The distance a model can move may be affected by terrain (p.83).

Any time the model moves by taking the Walk, Charge, or

Jump Actions, is moved using its Walk/Charge stat, is

Pushed, or falls back (see Morale, p.78), it is being affected

by a movement effect.

So, the pushed model is slowed by terrain (unless it inherently ignores terrain; the Belles shamble for instance) and is forced to circumvent impassable terrain and other models unless it can pass over or through these as per normal OR unless it is pushed directly toward, as per the errata:

Models forced to move:

• Toward/away from something (another model, a

specific point, table edge, etc.) must move by the

shortest route. A model moving in this manner

cannot end the movement further from/closer to the

thing than it began.

• Directly toward/away from something must move

as far as the effect requires in a straight line. They

will stop this move if they come into contact with

any intervening models or terrain they could not

move through or over.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Hatchethead

[ProdigalPunk]

1) Pushes still are effected by terrain.

2) If I am not mistaken I don't think the belles are, so they should be able to rocket up for a little while.

3) Moving is the anti-attacking. If I have to move before I attack it takes away so much momentum. No longer do I get three shots but 1. Sometimes just trying to wait it out is a good option depending on schemes and the like. In my last game, McM barely did anything until turn 5, otherwise I probably would have lost.

4) Dogs! They are Ht 1, making them easier to hide behind cover, and they are supper fast. Running some dogs next to hans will shut him down, and be a large speed bump for the slinger.

[Sandwich]

It sounds like you're right.

I hadn't looked at the Errata'd movement effects and whatnot; apologies.

Either way, Lure them into stupid hard places to get out of.