Viktoria and totem/s (redux)

[Melnibonean]

Having read another thread concerning Viktoria and totems I am inclined to disagree with the ruling given here.

I am at aloss to see why each Victoria cannot have a totem. Admittedly I would like to take two totems because I have a very definate plan. Student of Conflict and Malifaux Child - I want the Child as a sacrifice for Killjoy.

In lobbying for the two totem list I wish to create I site the following:

The distinction is in the Totem rules not in Viktorias' rules.

The rules for totems do not state any limit to the amount of totems that can be hired by a crew the only stipulation is that that they must be connected to a master.

Both Viktorias possess the Master trait with no distinction as to one Viktoria having precedence over the other.

The entry for Viktoria consistently referes to "this model" and "a friendly Viktoria" making a definate distinction between the two. At no time is it stated that Viktoria is one master represented by two individual models with one possessing the ability to connect with a totem and the other lacking this ability. To make this judgement requires an assumption that one Viktoria is Greater (master trait) and the other Lesser (sans master trait).

Therefore both Viktorias' should be able to have a totem.

I suppose it is now time to shoot me down in flames.:flaminghe

[Lucidicide]

While I have no particular issue with what you want to do, I think your argument puts you in some trouble. If each Master can only have one Totem, and you are saying you have two Masters... doesn't that mean you have to always play Brawls and take a 10 soulstone hit? There are rules about fielding two Masters that the Viks don't actually override.

Instead, the Viks are one master with special rules about two models, which I take to be the point of that other post.

I'm not saying your reasoning is wrong, but it does seem to be having your cake and eating it, too: Wanting them to function as two Masters for totems, but not for other rules. Since you're saying the Totem rules are separate, I would argue so are the rules for fielding two Masters.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

Edit: And I think TheBugKing is making that same argument (but better) when he says:

The key is here:

“Sisters”: Crews hiring this model as a

Master begin the game with 2 Viktorias. A

Crew can have a maximum of 2 Viktorias in

play at any time.

So you hire a single model. You happen to gain two figures on the table but the game doesn't know that until after the purchase crew step. As you purchase your crew you are only buying one master and as such you may only purchase one Totem.

It's a matter of when it is two models vs one and when you do the hiring. If it's two Masters earlier, you run into other rules complications.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Lucidicide
To add in info from the other thread.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The Viktorias are a Master (singular) choice.

They may only have one totem.

[Kaine]

The Viktorias are a Master (singular) choice.

They may only have one totem.

awwww so unfair

[TimeLapse]

... doesn't that mean you have to always play Brawls and take a 10 soulstone hit?...

I do believe you only take a ten point hit if you don’t take them as masters, If I am understanding the rule right you can bring 2 masters, Like lady j and Perdita and then bring the viks as mercenaries. They would make them go up in ten points just because you bring them in as masters in a brawl that would make no sense.

The Viktorias are a Master (singular) choice.

They may only have one totem.

So does that mean that anything that targets a master targets both models no mater how far away they are by default? Also does that mean that the totem you bring is in fact attached to both viks? If so killing the one that used it the most wont make the totem disappear? So a totem in a viks crew is connected to both since they are both the same master.

Also following this logic any rule or ability that targets the master would then target both vic masters at once.

Also then both viks can use soul stones and any rules attached to viks. If you use a soul stone to heal your vik master do both get a healing flip since they are the same master and all.

It seems like players like to say the viks are the same master for some rules and are separate for others, and it always seems to me (A viks player) to be the worst outcome for the viks players.

Just some thoughts I had

-Andrew

[Lucidicide]

I believe the point here is that they are a single hiring choice. You do not have two models until they hit the table. If you were to try to hire two totems, it would bounce back as you only have one master. It isn't until deployment that you have two.

I'm not sure what the totem is connected to, one or both models, I'd like to know that, too. I'd imagine both.

So I think the above is how you need to think about it. One choice for hiring, at deployment becomes two models, and thus should answer the rest of your questions about targeting, etc.

[Slinkdawg]

Maybe Viki is trying to keep it a secret so everyone thinks there is only one of her... Having two totems would advertise the fact that she has a doppelganger.

"How does that chick always seem to be in two places at once? Ruining my day?"