Guild Guard

[GuySmiley]

We still have a wait on the release of the guild guard but I have been looking at them pretty closely. I really like the low ss cost. Also while it will most likely take a cheat to get off cordon has some possibilities.

My question is has anyone tried out the guard in games yet? How have they played? Moreover, has anyone in the community come up with fun ideas for them that might be fun to try out?

[Killionaire]

He just doesn't seem as useful as Death Marshals or Witchlings. He doesn't have the ranged or melee capabilities of either, and isn't cheaper either.

He's marginally better at Melee than a Death Marshal, but not by much. Patrol is alright since Austringers are now Guards, but his other abilities don't seem so hot. Halt seems alright, but that appears to be what you're paying for, which isn't so reliable on a CB4 weapon.

I can't see Cordon being particularly useful, unless you have a weird map where you can hide two guards behind buildings, to generate an impenetrable forcefield provided you can make initiative each turn with an 8Rams...

[GuySmiley]

Something just keeps nagging at me that the guild guard are more then they appear at first. I have been looking over a lot of situations to see how they would apply. I honestly just need to get a bunch of games in with them so I can apply some of these ideas and see how they measure up. However, lacking that here are a few thoughts.

They have don’t have hard to wound but with armor they are one of our toughest low point guys on the field. They have the same cb with a pistol as the witchling stalkers. While you might not want to go after some of the high defense masters, a guild guard still can manage some decent hits with the their free positive flip.

Halt is a good ability but I am not totally sure how excited I am about it. Given the range of the pistol I don’t know how many plans this will ruin. It can be a headache, but I will need to play it out to see just how nasty.

Cordon is the biggest thing for me with these guys. Yes that 8 ram or higher makes me wince but the possibility of what can be done with it are huge. Cordon an invisible line that only a few models will be able to get past. Also it is a wall that can be moved as the target moves and changes the set up of your wall. If you have the cards you can basically set up how you want the board to look like from turn to turn. On the other hand, with some positioning you can split an army up with cordon and divide and conquer.

It seems that Guild Guard is very much a large denial model. Like I said I haven’t had the chance to play with them. (I don’t like to proxy) However, my gut feeling tells me there is more to them then it might seem. Course that could just be something I ate.

[TimeLapse]

I see a lot of possibilities here as well, I was thinking of making some proxy models or using some extra “Esquire Phidias De Bassarac” models (Rakem awesome looking models) and try this out, Think that Cordon could be awesome and in the right game give you an edge up. Also if you are playing corner to corner they could help secure your deployment zone and allow you to announce that strategy (I can’t remember the name of it off hand) and get the 2 victory points from it.

I like the idea of cutting units off from retreating or making blocking the most direct path to you master or key shooters.

I am also thinking it may be helpful vs Pandora forcing her to either go around or kill them before advancing past them.

Also we must keep in mind that this wall can be up to 12 inches long.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can be cast more then once so if you have three guards then the line gets to be 24 inches long. And you can move it, so if one guy in the middle cast it the two on the ends can move and shoot/fight on there turn redefining the wall as they move.

I think that cordon is the heart and sole of this unit and if you can figure it out you can really have a strong ability.

-Andrew

[Sholto]

I will need to take another look at the Guild Guard. I play 40k, and have been looking for a defensive equivalent to Kroot - they shield my Tau from assault. Perhaps Guild Guard are to Kroot as the Ortegas are to the Tau

The only way past Cordon is to kill the Guard, and if you put them in defensive stance and in cover, shooting them will be pointless for all but a handful of enemy models, meaning that you can then control where you opponent's models are going to go - within melee range of one of your Guard.

Sholto

[GuySmiley]

If you do decide to run some games with them, let me know how they do. I am running on theory here so anything you can do to help confirm or break that is always welcome.

As far as cordon goes I personally think it would be a great and fun unit just to make ronin and rattlers cry. The only things that come to mind at the moment that will get around cordon are obey, lure, float, fly and lure.

I still have a bit of confusion on how cordon will work. I am assuming it is the invisible wall. With that in mind if you shift the wall by moving a unit, what happens when the wall comes into contact with an enemy unit. Do you push the unit or are you forced to stop. This question and a few others I will ask in the rules area, but it does have a lot of potential.

[TimeLapse]

Well I played my first game with guild guards!

The list I played is as follows,

30ss

Perdita Ortega

Francisco Ortega

Guild guard

Guild guard

Nino Ortega

Santiago Ortega

In the game my Strategy turned out to be Reconnoiter.

I was playing vs. this list,

Sonnia Criid

Purifying flame

Samuel Hopkins

Witching stalkers

Witching stalkers

Witching stalkers

Convict Gunslinger

So this was both my first time playing guild and the guards I was not sure how to go about things via experience so I set up my side using educated guess on where to deploy. I deployed my FAM crew in to sections Nino and Perdita on one flank and the other two on the other side with one guild guard in each group deployed about 12 inches apart.

In the game I never got cordon off but the guards offered something else I didn’t think of, I sent them strait out as fast as they could and they became a screening unit for my shooters. My opponent had a hard time deciding weather or not to target them or move into my charge range. The armor 1 helped allot since his shooters did light damage.

In the end I shoot Sonnia with Perdita hitting with a ram giving me +2 to my damage via here crit trigger. In the damage flip I pulled the red joker and to make a long story shorter I did 12 damage all at once and killed sonia with full heath in one shoot. so the game ended sooner then it should have.

The guild guards work well, I would have to say there armor 1 is a great ability; the fact that they have both a gun and a sword makes them versatile in my list. Cordon is a great skill but it needs time to set up, and because of the strategies I had needed to get to the corners to get my points making cordon hard to use. Though the guild guards have staying power and were able to claim a Connor and keep it.

All and all I give them and B+ a cheep unit that has armor 1 that is not in Insignificant. Will use them again but my switch them out for Witch lings once and a while depending on the strategies.

I will post more once i get more games in, I hope to try bringing 3 or more next time.

[GuySmiley]

Andrew,

You are awesome. Keep up the great work in representing the guild and getting some testing done on the guild guard. It really helps me when building up lists and considering how I should play. I was set to try them out myself this last weekend but unfortunately allergies have been bad around here and my opponent had to bow out.

I was very curious about how big of a role armor would play with the guard. Witchling are super anti magic and the marshal has the hard to wound so I was curious to see how this affected survivability.

Cordon has a lot of potential. However, it is a tough trade as it uses high rams which are pretty valuable. I can still see using it to seal off flank by running it between two pieces of terrain and a few other times. However, it does seem like something that will take some practice to really get a feel for how and when it should be used.

The other ability I was thinking of was Halt. There was a post awhile back that was discussing if the guild was over powered. For awhile in that post the thought was because the guild had good ranged attacks to go with their melee options. My personal thought was that the distance between shooting and charging was fairly close in most cases as to not make it really to major of a deal. Even though they aren’t particularly good with their pistols they should be able to land hits with them. Did you have any experience in having Halt really gum up any plans or (and judging by your lists) spend most of your game blasting at each other from range?

Keep up the good work. I will be interested to hear more of your experience with them.

[TimeLapse]

Yeah I didn't have a chance to try halt since his models were all range based, or at lest he played them that way so stoping charges would not have done anything for that game. If i saw a killjoy or something big that would not be fun to be charged by the halt ablity would be priceless.

[Melnibonean]

This is interesting. I'll be building my LJ crew soon and I've been looking hard at Guild Guard. I have a feeling they'll work best in a group of 3. Giving them more chance of (one of them) pulling off Cordon.

I'm thinking that a unit of three on a flank could be used to shepheard opponets models to where you want them - which would make them targets for attack - at the same time taking the heat off the big hitters in your crew.

[greenstuff_gav]

i've just finished Painting Some Proxy Guild Guard for a smaller themed scenario Wednesday.. will post how they get on

[Kharnac]

ohwow, those are nice models. What're they actually from?

shall look forward to some gameplay orientated feedback too, i've been um-ing and ah-ing over the guild guard for literal months.

[themurphyfella]

they have a diskworld Ankmorpork guard look about them

[greenstuff_gav]

correct

the lady is Tirel From Hasslefree while at the front is Discworlds Sam Vimes . the other two guard are convertd from Sam before more members of the watch were available

at 35mm they're large, but as proxies suit well

[GuySmiley]

Gav I was reading over your battle report, which was wonderful by the way, and I was hoping for some insights into the guild guard from your games. I see they were hung up on a canine remains and I hope this was just a run of tough cards. Also due to the amount of undead and there not charging, halt didn't come into play. Any abilities or experiences of note?

[greenstuff_gav]

thanks! the lack of comments was a bit disheartening ain't gonna stop me tho!

it was a case of bad cards on Whispers part.. Canine Remains were far too effective!

but i do think Cordon, their most useful ability, is way too hard for 'em maybe add :rams to their CA?

Halt didn't really come into play. i'd be tempted to mix it up with Menace:

Cb(:rams) Halt!: When Damaging Defender with a Guard Pistol Strike, defender cannot Charge for the rest of this turn. If the Cb flip included a :crows, target may not take Move actions for the rest of the turn unless it passes a WP - 12 Duel

I also think Armour 1 isn't all it's cracked up to be; they are a little too squishy for my liking, especially compared to Death Marshalls

the VIP had a revised version of Raise The Alarm; i think the 3" isn't enough to be useful, specially for an (all) action

on the flipside though, Guard Pistols are great! two guild guard nearly killed Seamus in a turn!

i think more playtesting is needed and without such appalling luck!

[GuySmiley]

Gav or whisper- Based on what you have seen thus far then would you recommend guard as a single model to intersperse with stalkers or marshal, or maybe in a small group to just put up a wall of firepower?

I am working on fine tuning a list. I am worried the guild guard will be overshadowed by the austringer who I think will be one of the more popular models for any build.

[the good doctor]

we replayed greenstuff guys scenario proxying the guard with death marshalls and found again that cordon was too difficult to get off to be useful. and the guard die a bit too easy for the cost compared to the death marshalls. if cordon had come off for them on the other hand it would have been a diffrent outcome. perhaps an added ram in the ca stat as you suggest might work or drop the ss cost by 1 to compensate. we are going to replay with the added ram in the stat on friday/saturday and let you guys know how it went. On a sidenote the scenario plays out well and we look forward to seeing more story based games like this.

[greenstuff_gav]

Guy; i'd not recommend taking just the one; their skills (raise the alarm can be useful and patrol for alphastriking) work better in 2 or 3; if you've only got the points for one, i'd take a single Marshal

Good Doc; glad you tried it; cordon would have made a big difference at as is the guard aren't very useful for their cost

please let us know how the alterations work, i'm thinking of trying 'em out in a standard game soon

thanks for trying the scenario too; like many other games, Malifaux adapts well to games more involved than equal sized armies fighting it out

the next planned scenario is Ramos / Gremlins but we've gotta build the board for it first

[greenstuff_gav]

so, thinking back to it, any suggestions for a 25SS list?

i only have Perdita for a Master but can proxy other stuff

Perdita

Executioner

3x Guild Guard

Convict Gunslinger

theory being mass shooting followed by Cordon to funnel combat monsters into the Executioner

plus it's all painted :angel:

[GuySmiley]

-Gav

My thinking on balancing less guild guards had more to do with mixing in Austringers. They have the guardsmen trait so you would have the option of still using many of the talents. I am also balancing this with how much respect I have for paired weapons against how difficult it is to get cordon off. I am, alas not in the beta for the next rule book so I don't know if we are getting more guardsmen to really take advantage of patrol and raise the alarm but at this point I am really just trying to get a few ideas down. (I am so busy with league play, demo, or help a few friends get up to speed that I am lacking in my just to try out different ideas games)

As for your list. It looks pretty strong and fairly scary. Personally, I would swap out the convict gunslinger for one of the Ortega's. Having the extra companion might be handy. Also you get a higher will power which is handy against those casting armies.

[the good doctor]

Guy; i'd not recommend taking just the one; their skills (raise the alarm can be useful and patrol for alphastriking) work better in 2 or 3; if you've only got the points for one, i'd take a single Marshal

Good Doc; glad you tried it; cordon would have made a big difference at as is the guard aren't very useful for their cost

please let us know how the alterations work, i'm thinking of trying 'em out in a standard game soon

thanks for trying the scenario too; like many other games, Malifaux adapts well to games more involved than equal sized armies fighting it out

the next planned scenario is Ramos / Gremlins but we've gotta build the board for it first

pm me when you have next scenario ready. will be happy to give it a try. your first two were a real treat to play through. will let you know how the changes work next week. we will be playing it through again on tuesday i think.

[Major_Gilbear]

Some good thoughts here guys (and I liked the battle report too BTW!).

I'm posting here really because I came across some miniatures that I thought would be perfect for using as Guild Guard by Ratnik Miniatures here and thought they might be good proxies for the next coupla months?

[Lordfishbane]

Ratnik line has some interesting pieces, thanks for the tip.

[GuySmiley]

Those are pretty awesome. I am very curious to see what Wyrd ends up going with for the guard. The English bobby look is a very interesting choice because it adds another aspect to the Guild. I do like the western look of our current models very much, but a bit more Victorian would be nice to add a bit more old world feel.