How balanced is Malifaux?

[druchii]

So here's my deal:

I've been playing Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy Battles (and a bit of Hordes, Infinity, Magic, etc...)for over 10 years now and I've been wondering how balanced is Malifaux in general?

I know with games like Fantasy you can honestly set down an army, see your opponents and know how the game will play out (usually to your detriment if you're not playing a specific few armies). 40k has many fewer instances of this situation, but it can still happen.

-Are the different starters relatively balanced against each other?

-Are there starters that are much more conducive to winning with as a new player?

-How would you rate the relative difficulty levels of each of the starters? (IE is pandora much harder than the Victorias, is Som'er just boned against Lilith's box?)

-As we develop into larger games/our own crews (those not constrained by the boxes) which crews should I avoid or be on the look out for?

-What is the typical "stone" level of a Malufaux game?

-Are there any current "cheese" crews/builds? Do such ideas even exist in Malifaux?

Thanks for your input! You wouldn't believe how hard it is to break my "40k mindset" when approaching Malufaux.

d

[Justin]

So here's my deal:

I've been playing Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy Battles (and a bit of Hordes, Infinity, Magic, etc...)for over 10 years now and I've been wondering how balanced is Malifaux in general?

I know with games like Fantasy you can honestly set down an army, see your opponents and know how the game will play out (usually to your detriment if you're not playing a specific few armies). 40k has many fewer instances of this situation, but it can still happen.

-Are the different starters relatively balanced against each other?

-Are there starters that are much more conducive to winning with as a new player?

-How would you rate the relative difficulty levels of each of the starters? (IE is pandora much harder than the Victorias, is Som'er just boned against Lilith's box?)

-As we develop into larger games/our own crews (those not constrained by the boxes) which crews should I avoid or be on the look out for?

-What is the typical "stone" level of a Malufaux game?

-Are there any current "cheese" crews/builds? Do such ideas even exist in Malifaux?

Thanks for your input! You wouldn't believe how hard it is to break my "40k mindset" when approaching Malufaux.

d

1) No, not at all. The starters are not balanced. They seem to have been put together to give you value for your money, not for your soul stones. Which, by the by, is I think the right way to go. A gremlin might be half the price of a witchling stalker in game, but it takes just as much metal to make him.

2) Yes, there are. Perdita, Lilith, and Lady Justice are all good starters for a new player. The Victorias aren't bad, but they really need ronin.

3) I'm not going to rate every starter here, but I'm going to tell you right off the bat that the gremlin starter is almost unplayable. You need more gremlins because you'll be making them with get yer bro. Also mosquitoes, piglets, and the hog whisperer are all rather essential. I love the gremlins, but don't judge them by their starter. As I said, the easiest would probably be Lilith, Perdita, or Lady Justice. Pandora is good, and her starter is balanced, but she can take some getting used to.

4) The gremlins and Marcus are generally considered the two weakest masters in the game. However, they are both very playable and I enjoy them both. The higher end of the scale as far as power is concerned is better balanced and greatly depends on your specific match up and strategy that you flipped.

5) 30-35

6) See my answer to number 4. Some crews are definitely on the lower end of the power level, but the higher end is going to depend on the strategy and who you're up against.

I think it's also worth mentioning that a starter and 1-2 blisters usually gives you more than enough for a full blown crew.

The victorias box set, a pack of ronin, and a convict gun slinger will be all you ever need to run a good Vicky list. The red chappel box, a pack of punk zombies, the convict gunslinger, and a grave spirit is all you really ever need for Seamus, etc. More stuff is always good to mix it up, but the bare necessities of a 35 ss crew don't take much.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Justin

[Flikfutch87]

Which would you say are the weakest starter sets?

[Justin]

Which would you say are the weakest starter sets?

Well, that's a tough question. And when reading my answer keep in mind that weakest starter does not equal weakest master. For the most part, the weakest starters (when played strictly as a starter) are probably any for any master who relies on producing additional models, as the starter can only provide you with so many.

Also keep in mind that the game really isn't intended to be played starter against starter, and it really doesn't cost all that much to buy a few blisters and expand your crew.

That said, the weakest starters are probably:

Sommer-Gremlins are so cheap soul stone wise that the starter just can't provide enough. Plus mosquitoes and pigs are absolutely key.

Nicodem-His starter doesn't have mindless zombies. They're rather central for him. But buy one pack of mindless zombies and he's probably one of the more powerful masters in the game, in my opinion.

McMorning-He has two support models and not enough offensive ones. He is another master who can pump out more models, so you need a few more to account for what he can produce.

[LAZtheinfamous]

I wish I had known this when I bought my Som'er starter. It does seem underpowered to the Marcus and Pandora starters I got.

[Prophaniti]

My club have most of the starters between us and with a few extras I don't think there's been that much difference overall between the crews. Mind you our dataset is a bit small.

Also the Gremlins do seem to struggle a bit. For my part I'm still coming to terms with Rasputina (0-1-2), so I'm hardly an expert source.

Also @LAZtheinfamous, is your avatar from an old cover of the Mastermind game? I played it years ago.

[Angus Khan]

Also @LAZtheinfamous, is your avatar from an old cover of the Mastermind game? I played it years ago.

I was just thinking that! I even have a copy of the game with that exact picture on it.

[HandsomeDan]

I think the most important thing to think about when considering whether or not this game is balanced is that you play for objectives. Overall every master has some fantastic strengths and weaknesses depending on scenario. My current faction of choice, Gremlins, can have a really tough time with slaughter especially against certain masters. But on reconnoiter they can be almost unbeatable. Also consider that you build your crew after you determine your schemes and strategies so you get to choose your tools to deal with the task at hand. I think this emphasis on objectives over the more traditional "bring an army, kill 'em all" helps Malifaux's game balance tremendously. It also makes playing it repeatedly with the same selection of minis a lot more diverse and rewarding. No master or crew will have equal odds of winning in every situation, but that's what makes it cool and keeps it interesting.

[Justin]

I wish I had known this when I bought my Som'er starter. It does seem underpowered to the Marcus and Pandora starters I got.

Would it have made a difference?

It's still a good deal.

Just pick up some mosquitoes.

[LAZtheinfamous]

Yeah, Mastermind. Shows the love of old school games. But...

I probably would have gone with the Perdita starter, actually. I was up in the air about them both. Choose Som'er cause I have lots of green already.

[druchii]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

I'm mainly asking because I was accused of "trying to break the game" because I wanted to bring Zoraida+kade+candy+teddy as my basic 25ss crew. Honestly I picked all four models because I either liked the models (Teddy, Kade) or the rules behind the models (Zoraida/candy) and I thought they'd play out well against the other starters.

We have a good few (like eight) players who have picked up various starters (from Lady J to Nicodem) and I really want to encourage MORE players to pick up the game (since I've picked the game up two weeks ago I've recruited two more players...).

Believe it or not some players are really interested in keeping their illusion that the only people they lose to are those who are actively attempting to "break" the game....

d

[Justin]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

I'm mainly asking because I was accused of "trying to break the game" because I wanted to bring Zoraida+kade+candy+teddy as my basic 25ss crew. Honestly I picked all four models because I either liked the models (Teddy, Kade) or the rules behind the models (Zoraida/candy) and I thought they'd play out well against the other starters.

We have a good few (like eight) players who have picked up various starters (from Lady J to Nicodem) and I really want to encourage MORE players to pick up the game (since I've picked the game up two weeks ago I've recruited two more players...).

Believe it or not some players are really interested in keeping their illusion that the only people they lose to are those who are actively attempting to "break" the game....

d

Yeah...

Mixing and matching models is what it's all about. Especially with Zoraida. The starters are a good deal, but I wouldn't play them unless I was trying to teach someone.

It's kind of refreshing to see a crew that mixes up the themes every once in a while. A lot of the masters have a set few models that they seem to always include. Nothing wrong with making use of your options.