Another Noob Plays A Game

[StormHalo]

My cousin and I tossed down a game of Malifaux last night, popping both of our respective cherries.

Overall I enjoyed the way the rules worked. I like the alternating activations, the way spells are cast, and the amount of decisions you have to make with your control hand, soul stones and (0) spells and abilities.

However, I did have some questions or concerns...

I played Seamus (and his starting box) and my cousin used Lilith (and her starting crew). He randomly chose the strategy of "slaughter," while I chose "claim jump."

Our strategies made for a bit of a boring game. We met in the middle after deploying in a line and the game stayed in the middle (upon a bridge that was my objective) for the entire time. This fact forced us into making bland decisions when it came to movement or game-board-interaction. All of those cool terrain rules in the back of the core book, they went right out the window...

Secondly, I know the models need to be survivable, but damn is it hard to wound in this game!!

I'd flip a 13 with Seamus against a Terror Tot who would flip a 7 and still get denied a damage flip because of the negative modifier imposed by the combat total.

Do you REALLY need to flip the red joker every time you need to wound opposing models!? I understand Seamus' crew has ways to lower defense, and trust me, I tried to do use "undress" almost every turn and was only ever able to get it to go off a couple of times.

Needless to say, I was more than a tad discouraged when it came to my crew's ability to EVER cause damage. Sure, they could take a fair bit of a beat-down, but they had NO teeth.

I think I personally could beat Seamus down with nothing but a wet noodle and have little fear that he'd ever do more than scratch me and cause some excessive bleeding.

[nerdelemental]

However, I did have some questions or concerns...

Secondly, I know the models need to be survivable, but damn is it hard to wound in this game!!

I'd flip a 13 with Seamus against a Terror Tot who would flip a 7 and still get denied a damage flip because of the negative modifier imposed by the combat total.

Do you REALLY need to flip the red joker every time you need to wound opposing models!? I understand Seamus' crew has ways to lower defense, and trust me, I tried to do use "undress" almost every turn and was only ever able to get it to go off a couple of times.

Needless to say, I was more than a tad discouraged when it came to my crew's ability to EVER cause damage. Sure, they could take a fair bit of a beat-down, but they had NO teeth.

It's unclear to me from this post, but I'm thinking there's a small misunderstanding about damage? We'll have to run through an example of combat from beginning to end, I think.

To answer: NO, you do not need anything like a red joker to do damage. On the damage flip, even an ace will inflict damage. Only the Black Joker won't.

[StormHalo]

The way I understood it (and really, I am not the best with new rule systems) is that you flip your card to hit.

If I flip a 13 I add Seamus' Cb of 5 and end up with a total of 18.

The tot flips its defense and gets a 7 added to its Df of 6 to have a total of 13.

The combat total would be the difference between them, five.

With a combat total of 1-5, you flip one less card for damage. Seamus only flips one card for damage...so essentially he gets to flip no cards?

Again, I read the rules through only once, and I've been piling overtime up at the job and getting very little sleep. I very well could have misunderstood something...and really, I am hoping that I did!!

[Gunthyr]

If you have one (1) negative twist, you would flip two cards and take the lowest of the two. If you had two (2) negative twists you would flip a total of three (3) cards and take the lowest card. It goes the same for positive twists, up to a max of +/- three (3) twists.

[Angus Khan]

The way I understood it (and really, I am not the best with new rule systems) is that you flip your card to hit.

If I flip a 13 I add Seamus' Cb of 5 and end up with a total of 18.

The tot flips its defense and gets a 7 added to its Df of 6 to have a total of 13.

The combat total would be the difference between them, five.

With a combat total of 1-5, you flip one less card for damage. Seamus only flips one card for damage...so essentially he gets to flip no cards?

Again, I read the rules through only once, and I've been piling overtime up at the job and getting very little sleep. I very well could have misunderstood something...and really, I am hoping that I did!!

Actually fate -1 means you flip an additional card, but take the lowest. So in your example above, Seamus would flip 2 cards for the damage flip (say a 12 and a 7) but be forced to use the lowest since he had fate -1. (So, since the 7 would be used, the damage would be moderate.)

EDIT: Too slow with the typing...

[Gunthyr]

To add to the last reply. You always flip one card and then flip the number of extra cards based on the number of twists. The positive or negative refers to either taking the highest or lowest value of the flipped cards. If you flip a red or black joker, you always use this card.

[nerdelemental]

To add to the last reply. You always flip one card and then flip the number of extra cards based on the number of twists. The positive or negative refers to either taking the highest or lowest value of the flipped cards. If you flip a red or black joker, you always use this card.

Mostly...not true on the Red Joker. You're never compelled to use the Red. In the case of negative fate, you'll never use the Red Joker because you're drawing extra cards and you must use the lower. In the case of positive fate, though, even though you're drawing extra and you choose which one to use, the Black Joker specifically states that you must use it if it pops up.

Stormhalo, everyone's given you the direction you need, but I'm going to do another "Noob PRIMER: Combat" coming soon and it'll address this.

But, hoping to simply reinforce what's been offered:

ANY twist of fate, both :mali+fate and :mali-fate means you'll draw that many extra cards. Negative fate means you draw the extra cards and take the lowest value, positive fate means you draw extra and you choose whichever one you want. So, if on your attack your final result is 15 and your target's final result is 13, there's a difference of 2 meaning you'll have :mali-fate for the damage flip. You then flip two cards and say they're the Ace of Ravens and the 13 of Rams. You must use the Ace which means you inflict the weak damage stat from your weapon.

If your attack was a 13 and your opponent's defense was a 13, you'll receive :mali-fate:mali-fate so you would succeed in the attack but would then draw those two additional cards for the damage. So you flip three cards and take the lowest to represent the damage. If on that flip you still flip a 13, 13, 11, your model would still deal its severe damage even though the odds were against that happening.

Neat, huh?

[capcap]

StormHalo does this make sense now? If not I know I'm in Michigan and would love to help you out. Can you make it to Pandemonium on Thursday nights? We are going to be having a league start up for Malifaux soon there. Good luck.

[StormHalo]

Aha! Thanks for everybody's clarification. Ignore my criticism concerning the damage then. I'm a buffoon!

Capcap: I live in Sterling Heights, which is a ways away from Garden City. It'd be tough for me to commit to anything that requires that much of a drive.

Edited September 5, 2009 by StormHalo

[Kealios]

As for damage, yes, Weak damage does get dealt alot, but if you hit, you will ALWAYS do some damage, even if they have Armor, etc.

Last night I charged a Steamborg Executioner with Myranda shapeshifted into a Sabertooth Cerberus. Because the damage flip was not negative (ie no :mali-fate) I was allowed to cheat the damage flip. I cheated with the Red Joker, and flipped a 13 after that...10 damage, minus 1 for Armor = almost dead Steamborg. After that, all I had to do was hit, and minimum damage would do the rest...and it did

I still lost the game

And yes, I have had Fate minus 2 (:mali-fate :mali-fate) and still flipped Severe Damage on all 3 cards...good times!

[StormHalo]

I'd like say that my first criticism has been totally erased from my mind, going in the way of the misinterpretation of the damage rules.

I've had a few days to think the game over, and realize how much more effectively I could have played my crew.

With the Belles hiding in a nearby wood, I could have cast lure to draw my cousin's strongest Neverborn off of the bridge. With Seamus, I could have made short work of a few terror tots, got some tokens and raised a few more Belles to up my model count on the objective. Oh, silly silly me!

This a great game, especially once you start realizing the just how effective and diverse your models can be.

[nerdelemental]

And it sounds like you could have actually damaged them....

Good times.

Good times....