From The Shadows And Subordinates

[Ebb]

Question: How does the From The Shadows Talent work with subordinate characters?

The rules are clear about subordinates not getting a turn without the Order Action, and the wording on From The Shadows supports that, in the sense that for instance; a Crooligan subordinate wouldn't normally get any use out of it's From The Shadows Talent, which is unfortunate.

However, what about if the Fated controller has From The Shadows? I can't seem to find anything in the rules that prevents a character from using their From The Shadows turn to Order their subordinates (giving them a From The Shadows turn), which seems to be the case even if those subordinates don't have From The Shadows. Which would be doubly unfortunate for any subordinates with From The Shadows, and I'd be inclined to house rule something in that gives them a 1 AP From The Shadows action, or maybe even a full turn without needing to be ordered, or something to that effect... Otherwise, Crooligans would feel a bit underwhelming, and I really like Crooligans =P

Edit: My interpretation of Fated getting to Order subordinates on their From The Shadows turn relies on my sense that characters generating Initiative takes place before the first round of Dramatic Time (which is not explicitly stated, so I could be wrong), thus not requiring the subordinate to have the Reactivate Condition. If I am wrong about this, then perhaps it would make sense to rule that subordinates which have the From The Shadows Talent count as having the Reactivate Condition for this purpose. This still wouldn't feel like adequate compensation for the Crooligans but it makes sense.

[solkan]

I think first it needs to be said bluntly that the subordinate character rules are there to prevent minions overshadowing the players.  So the downside to having a loyal minion who will do whatever you say is that the loyal minion won't do anything on its own without you telling it to do so.

Disclaimer:  For clarity, I believe the sequence of events is going to be:

1. Initiative Flip
2. The round in which all of the turns generated by "From the Shadows" happens.
3. The "First Round" of dramatic time.

 

On 12/29/2021 at 3:19 PM, Ebb said:

Edit: My interpretation of Fated getting to Order subordinates on their From The Shadows turn relies on my sense that characters generating Initiative takes place before the first round of Dramatic Time (which is not explicitly stated, so I could be wrong), thus not requiring the subordinate to have the Reactivate Condition. If I am wrong about this, then perhaps it would make sense to rule that subordinates which have the From The Shadows Talent count as having the Reactivate Condition for this purpose. This still wouldn't feel like adequate compensation for the Crooligans but it makes sense.

What does any of this have to do with the Reactivate condition?  The stuff about Reactivate is specifying a requirement to receive a second turn during a round, and you're just trying to figure out how to justify a subordinate getting a first turn during a "From Shadows" round.

I think, personally, I would allow a subordinate with From the Shadows a turn during the "From the Shadows" round if it had received a detailed order to do something specific using Order before the start of dramatic time, but any actions taken have to be justified from the text of the order, at whatever the controlling player's initiative step would be.  Because "your subordinate character won't do anything you didn't Order it to do" is still the deal.  That way you can get some benefit from the ability without needing to also have From the Shadows.  (I don't know how easy it is for player characters to get From the Shadows, so I don't know whether the rest is an issue or not...)

Because if you want a Crooligan that will act on its own at the start of dramatic time, you want an ally, not a subordinate character.