"Not a Bomb" Shockwave

[LeperColony]

This question regards Angelica Durand's ability "Suddenly Doves," specifically the  trigger "Not a Bomb"

The trigger states:
 

"When resolving, after Dropping the Shockwave Markers, choose one Dropped Shockwave Marker.  Drop a Scheme Marker into base contact with the Shockwave Marker, then remove the Shockwave Marker."

So my question is, does the Shockwave happen?  Or is the Shockwave marker removed before the Shockwave occurs?

Under "when resolving" timing (page 12), it says "Any new effects are resolved last, unless the Trigger specifies otherwise."

In this case, the trigger specifies it happens "after dropping" the markers.  The rules for shockwave (page 31) say that "The Dropped Marker generates a equal to the Shockwave's value." but it doesn't specify when this happens.

I see two possible scenarios:

1)  The shockwave marker is dropped and immediately spawns its shockwave.  Then a Scheme marker is put into base contact and the Shockwave marker is removed.  

The reasoning here is that the trigger effect happens "last," and so because the shockwave is a consequence of the Shockwave marker dropping, it occurs before the trigger.

2)  The Scheme marker "replaces" the Shockwave marker before the shockwave occurs.  

This reasoning being that the trigger's full effect occurs after dropping the markers but before resolving the shockwave.  Also, the trigger's name seems to imply an intention to negate the shockwave, but I don't know how much credence to lend to ability/trigger names.

[LeperColony]

13 minutes ago, Adran said:

Well I would say the rules do indicate when the shockwave marker produces the pulse. It does so in a time period following the marker being dropped and before the marker is removed for the shockwave being fully resolved.

The Dropped Marker generates a  equal to the Shockwave’s value

 Is what is written on page 31.

I am fully comfortable that the process is

Step 1. Drop all shockwave markers

Step 2. Resolve the shockwave pulse for each model affected (according to the simultaneous effects rules)

Step 3. Remove the shockwave marker.

...

...partially because I think everyone actually agrees with how this interaction is meant to go... [edited to show connection - LC]

nvm, I did misunderdtand you

[Adran]

4 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

I think this is definitely a logically consistent result under the RAW, but I think most people believe it goes:

1.  Drop all shockwave markers

2.  Do trigger (place scheme marker, pick up shockwave marker without pulse)

So I'm not sure there really is consensus on how the interaction happens.  Unless I'm misunderstanding you?

Based on @Kadeton's rationale of convention and intention, I had agreed that it felt like the intent was to circumvent the .

But RAW, I agree with you that the should occur.

Sorry, My timing you quoted was just how the shockwave works.

I believe the trigger happens after my step 1, but before my step 2, meaning that the shockwave marker is not there when you try and do step 2 (well for angelica at least) and so no pulse happens.

 

[LeperColony]

13 minutes ago, Adran said:

Sorry, My timing you quoted was just how the shockwave works.

I believe the trigger happens after my step 1, but before my step 2, meaning that the shockwave marker is not there when you try and do step 2 (well for angelica at least) and so no pulse happens.

 

Yeah, I realized that "After." 😀

 

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

The timing of "After" is  (Page 34)

I would note though that the text on After says it [the effect contingent on "after" timing] occurs "after the effect in question is resolved."

Which means that, for the trigger to supersede the , from a rules standpoint, the  can't be considered part of the effect of dropping the shockwave marker.

Because it is possible for a framework to exist where the  either is or is not an integral part of dropping the marker.  

If it were an integral part, that would preserve the  and the trigger, because the rules for shockwave indicate the marker remains until the "Action is fully resolved."  So the would happen, then the scheme markers could be placed.

But if it is not an integral part, then there is some window between placement and , which allows the trigger to supersede the .

Generally speaking, I think rules should be read to preserve effects.  But exceptions do exist, especially when the intention of the exception is to supersede an effect. 

But the question then becomes, does assuming a framework where the isn't an integral part of dropping the marker have other implications for the rules?